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Revel Speakers The Science of Sound

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  #11  
Old 02-23-2012, 01:22 PM
jeffkrag jeffkrag is offline
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trpon, bought them used.

Still, sidewall distance is different from front wall.

Face, appreciate it.

I will try to get hold of a better amp and see what happens. Still have a hard time believing that this is an amp issue. I realize the Sunfire doesn't compete with higher end amps from a clarity and grain perspective, but it's not a bad amp, nor is it a slouch in the power dept, going 200wpc and doubling up at 400wpc into 4ohms and 800wpc into 2 ohms. I'm sure a more powerful and better quality amp will sound better, but will it bring back the mids and low bass on average recordings? (I make the recording quality distinction because of the glaring difference between very good jazz recordings and just about everything else I try to play. Wondering if Jazz recording engineers just boost bass as a habit).

Question: if this is a placement/node/standing wave issue, will room EQ fix this issue (like an Audessey or Room Perfect auto correction, or even a PEQ in say a Classe CP 800?)?
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2012, 02:03 PM
TOGA TOGA is offline
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jeffkad, pls try to load my files,from some other computer,they're normal JPG pics in .RAR format, you will see that it can provide deep bass, and alsowhen it didn't when set in some location as well.

Average quality of music is not the problem, poor or average recording mostly never lack of bass quantity,
but average player can make less than enough bass quality/power. As I said my Levinson 436 with 700watt on tap at 4 ohm still can't make powerful sound out of Salon2. I tried Audessy once too, you will never bring up null from room mode with EQ, what you get is just more distortion from speakers and amps if you EQ it up too far. I suggest you to do measurement. use simple tools like XTZ analyzer or normal radio shack SPL meter+ some low frequency test tones. Try to find at what frequency that is lacking. I think even average amp with average power should not causing lack of bass too.
Tonality should still be right, but average amp with ave power output will make sound
less punchy, less powerful or less conrolled in the bass when you crank it up, but normally it shouldn't cause any lack of bass in this context, the tonal balance shouldn't be that off. And if you have dip or null in any frequency, I doubt that bass trap will help in this matter.

I do suggest you to make some measurement.
Oh and, what about the switch in the back ? please make sure that Low Freq Compensation switch is set at NORMAL.
Also, how about your bi-wire speaker cables ? is it large enough ? what is AC cord feeding your OPPO and Sunfire amp ? are they standard black PVC cords ?
Is your Sunfire amp a " multi channel " ?

TOGA

PS what you have is one in a handful of speakers that make impressive deep bass and bass power.

Last edited by TOGA; 02-23-2012 at 02:17 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2012, 02:04 PM
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chessman chessman is offline
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EQ will knock down some peaks, but no nulls, that result from standing waves. I say "some" because cutting a peak too far, without regard to delay times, can make the sound worse. Basically, it is location, location, location of the speakers as the cake and EQ as the icing.

I started out using an Emotiva MPS-1 (200 watts x 7 channels) and my bass was loose or non-existant and the mids thin. I had to upgrade my amp. But I still think your issue is 80% speaker location and only 20% other. Keep at it.

Last edited by chessman; 02-23-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2012, 02:11 PM
Dafos Dafos is offline
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Hi, i believe that what your experiencing is a sickout in the upper bass, lower mid region that normally produces the threadbare mids that you describe. Definitely not a speaker issue, but more of a room-speaker interaction issue. I agree with chessman, try coming closer to the speaker and don't do this by inches; rather, make a radical move forward so that you now see the speakers at the corners of your vision. Most modern speakers such as yours have such great dispersion characteristics that even when listened to in the extreme nearfield they manage to maintain a solid center image. Just my two cents worth....
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  #15  
Old 02-23-2012, 05:15 PM
jeffkrag jeffkrag is offline
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Dafos, I've heard of these suckout issues. How do you overcome this if you have limited placement options? I can move speakers back against the wall, but would guess this would kill imaging and maybe muddy things up. I cant bring them out more than I already did initially. I can move them laterally a foot or so, but thats it. Is there a way to measure this? If confirmed, can room treatment fix this?

trpon - I said these were used, but actually, these are demos from a high end installer in CT. His initial reaction was "you need better electronics". Nothing at all regarding placement. I am reaching out to him to dig deeper on the room issue.

Last edited by jeffkrag; 02-23-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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  #16  
Old 02-23-2012, 08:52 PM
trponhunter trponhunter is offline
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how far are the speakers from the side walls?
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  #17  
Old 02-23-2012, 08:57 PM
Ritmo Ritmo is offline
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Jeffkad,

Hang in there. You are getting great advice. Once you get the Salons dialed in, you will spend many hours listening to music.

Mike
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  #18  
Old 02-23-2012, 10:03 PM
jeffkrag jeffkrag is offline
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Thanks Ritmo. It's frustrating, but not devastating. Hey, if they just dont work in my room, so be it. I got them for a great price, and should have no trouble replacing them with something else. I do want to figure out what my room is doing so I can not only try to fix this issue, but whatever new spkr might come down the road (although I would assume all speakers play differently). Maybe next setup is great monitors with EQ subs, or maybe something like Legacy Whisper that takes room out of the equation. But I'm not giving up just yet, and I truly appreciate all the good advice.
Maybe an experienced installer can help with room analysis?

trpon, right spkr is roughly 4 ft from side wall (with opening for stairs about 5 ft out), left spkr sits next to a 4x5 alcove, so its actually 6 ft from side for about 5 ft out (if that makes sense). The room itself has lots of irregularities that you would think would break up any nodes/waves: half of back wall is 20 ft from front, then goes back another 5 ft to make it 25 ft from front, with 36" cabinet along the 20 ft stretch, and tall exercise equipment in the 25ft stretch. I have lots of closet doors on both side walls. Maybe I'll open those up as diffractors and see what they do to sound, lol
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  #19  
Old 02-23-2012, 10:06 PM
joeinid joeinid is offline
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Is there a switch on the speakers for the room placement? close to the wall or further into the room?
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  #20  
Old 02-23-2012, 10:20 PM
trponhunter trponhunter is offline
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try moving the speakers closer to the side walls - that should give you some low frequency reinforcement from the boundary. if you have a total of 15 feet on the wall - mve tem so te center of the drivers are about 30" from the side walls. let me know how that works. post some pictures - it's a little confusing. by the way - it's a room issue - positioning should cure it or help quite a bit.
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