AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Audio & Video > Acoustical Treatments

Acoustical Treatments Because the room matters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-29-2018, 08:34 PM
Levitator's Avatar
Levitator Levitator is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sunshine State, Australia
Posts: 478
Default Dealing with glass reflections

Hi guys

I am blessed, and cursed, with large glass sliding doors (side wall) and glass louvres (side wall and behind speakers) in our main listening room. While I have some treatments throughout the room itís now time I dealt with the glass reflections.

I have been using some sheer (thin) blinds on the glass sliding door (about 4.3m wide and 2.5m high) which I will now replace along with covering the glass louvres.

From what Iíve read my options to help reduce unwanted reflections are:

- thick drapes / curtains
- Ďacousticí designed curtains (expensive)
- Roman blinds with a thicker fabric
- honeycombe blinds (also known as cellular shades)

Keeping in mind we also want to maintain the ascetics of the room while dealing with the glass, Iíd be interested in what others have found works in a similar situation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks guys
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-29-2018, 11:03 PM
CGabriel's Avatar
CGabriel CGabriel is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Washington USA
Posts: 825
Default

You can solve this problem.
But you have to throw out everything you think you know about acoustics.

Do some research on Franc Chang and his resonators. Reviews on many sites including 6Moons.

I have used them for more 15 years. They work, especially in environments like yours where traditional room treatments are impractical and aesthetically destructive.
__________________
Caelin Gabriel
President
Shunyata Research
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-30-2018, 01:15 AM
mchydro's Avatar
mchydro mchydro is offline
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 881
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGabriel View Post
You can solve this problem.
But you have to throw out everything you think you know about acoustics.

Do some research on Franc Chang and his resonators. Reviews on many sites including 6Moons.

I have used them for more 15 years. They work, especially in environments like yours where traditional room treatments are impractical and aesthetically destructive.
This piqued my interest just to learn more so I googled him with no results. For those interested, his name seems to be spelled like this: Franck Tchang.
__________________
System build in progress...
TAD Reference One MK2 Loudspeakers, Esoteric Grandioso M1 Monoblock Amplifiers (2), Esoteric Grandioso C1 Linestage Preamplifier, Stillpoints Ultra 5's, PS Audio DirectStream P20 Power Plant, Richard Gray's Power Company RGPC 1200 Custom (2), Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) AC Receptacles (3)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-30-2018, 01:34 AM
Levitator's Avatar
Levitator Levitator is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sunshine State, Australia
Posts: 478
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGabriel View Post
You can solve this problem.
But you have to throw out everything you think you know about acoustics.

Do some research on Franc Chang and his resonators. Reviews on many sites including 6Moons.

I have used them for more 15 years. They work, especially in environments like yours where traditional room treatments are impractical and aesthetically destructive.

Thanks Caelin - I had a quick look online and while I donít really understand how it all works, it seems very interesting.

Iíll see what dealers they have in Australia to see if I can trial.

Out of interest, how many and which ones do you use in your own set up to get the results youíre getting?

Thanks,
Jamie.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-30-2018, 12:29 PM
CGabriel's Avatar
CGabriel CGabriel is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Washington USA
Posts: 825
Default

Sorry for the spelling. Not my strength.

I have known him for many years before he could speak english very well. He is a true iconoclast. I consider him a cross between a mad scientist and an alchemist. There are other products “similar” on the market but he is the one that invented this concept.

And they work if you follow the general rules. You don’t need many to prove it to yourself. Just get a silver and a copper gold to start. That is enough do some dramatic tweaking.

He has these little square blocks about a quarter inch cube with holes in them. you put them on glass windows approximately in the lower corner about a few inches from the side and bottom. It transforms what is a vibrating reflecting surface dramatically.

I have no financial or interest. He and his products are truly unique and he deserves to be recognized.
__________________
Caelin Gabriel
President
Shunyata Research
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-30-2018, 02:03 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 19,515
Default

Sounds logical in that they would change the resonant frequency of the glass.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-30-2018, 07:26 PM
crwilli's Avatar
crwilli crwilli is offline
Racing Hoopties


 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bluffton SC
Posts: 7,958
Default

Isnít glass the double whammy? Not only highly reflected to mid and mostly higher frequencies but also a black hole for low frequencies? So it kills two ways.

By changing the resonance of the glass panel (say, slider?) anybody have a guess how these devices reduce either of the mechanisms that cause that effect? I wouldnít think it impacts the reflectivity at all. But the low frequencies???
__________________
Main room - Sonus Faber Stradivari, JL Audio F113v2 & CR-1 Crossover, McIntosh MC2301 Amplifiers with Stillpoint Ultra SS feet, McIntosh C1100 on Stillpoint Minis, Esoteric K-03X on Stillpoint Minis, Cybershaft Ultimate 2 OP17 on Stillpoint Minis, SilenZio v.2 Audio by -E- Media Server (running ROON), GigaFoil v4, Keces P3 with Ghent PC, 9 M Supra Cat 8+ and 0.65 M Revelation audio ethernet cables.

Other - 5 Stillpoint Apertures, GIK Bass Traps, Vicoustics Waveguide panels, Shunyata Alpha Clock 75 1.5 meter BNC, Shunyata Alpha 1.5 meter USB, WW Gold Eclipse 7 SCs, WW Silver Electra 7 PCs, WW Silver Eclipse ICs; 3 X 20 Amp Power lines, PS Audio P10 & Dectet, 3 Sound Anchor stands, Powerports and numerous Noise Harvesters. Furutech Flex 50, Cable risers, HRS dampeners

TV Room Audio - Panasonic TC-P60GT50, McIntosh MX-121, MC7106, Revel F52 & C32, B&W LM1, Sonos Connect\W4S Remedy\iFI 9V Power, WW & Kimber cables, PS Audio Dectet
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-30-2018, 07:36 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 19,515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
Isn’t glass the double whammy? Not only highly reflected to mid and mostly higher frequencies but also a black hole for low frequencies? So it kills two ways.

By changing the resonance of the glass panel (say, slider?) anybody have a guess how these devices reduce either of the mechanisms that cause that effect? I wouldn’t think it impacts the reflectivity at all. But the low frequencies???
Glass resonant frequency depending on thickness, etc of course just happens to be in the audible range. Hence the “singing” wine glass when rubbed just right with a moistened finger. Put water in the cup it becomes the cup... never mind that’s Bruce Lee... Ahem, damping the glass with any object that is able to shift the resonant frequency into less offending range and it’s a big plus. The rest is not so easy

Last edited by PHC1; 12-30-2018 at 07:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-31-2018, 05:24 PM
crwilli's Avatar
crwilli crwilli is offline
Racing Hoopties


 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bluffton SC
Posts: 7,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
Glass resonant frequency depending on thickness, etc of course just happens to be in the audible range. Hence the ďsingingĒ wine glass when rubbed just right with a moistened finger. Put water in the cup it becomes the cup... never mind thatís Bruce Lee... Ahem, damping the glass with any object that is able to shift the resonant frequency into less offending range and itís a big plus. The rest is not so easy


Thanks! That makes sense.

How do we deal with it Ďsucking outí bass?
__________________
Main room - Sonus Faber Stradivari, JL Audio F113v2 & CR-1 Crossover, McIntosh MC2301 Amplifiers with Stillpoint Ultra SS feet, McIntosh C1100 on Stillpoint Minis, Esoteric K-03X on Stillpoint Minis, Cybershaft Ultimate 2 OP17 on Stillpoint Minis, SilenZio v.2 Audio by -E- Media Server (running ROON), GigaFoil v4, Keces P3 with Ghent PC, 9 M Supra Cat 8+ and 0.65 M Revelation audio ethernet cables.

Other - 5 Stillpoint Apertures, GIK Bass Traps, Vicoustics Waveguide panels, Shunyata Alpha Clock 75 1.5 meter BNC, Shunyata Alpha 1.5 meter USB, WW Gold Eclipse 7 SCs, WW Silver Electra 7 PCs, WW Silver Eclipse ICs; 3 X 20 Amp Power lines, PS Audio P10 & Dectet, 3 Sound Anchor stands, Powerports and numerous Noise Harvesters. Furutech Flex 50, Cable risers, HRS dampeners

TV Room Audio - Panasonic TC-P60GT50, McIntosh MX-121, MC7106, Revel F52 & C32, B&W LM1, Sonos Connect\W4S Remedy\iFI 9V Power, WW & Kimber cables, PS Audio Dectet
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-01-2019, 09:08 AM
bart's Avatar
bart bart is offline
Life is beautiful


 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 15,280
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
Thanks! That makes sense.

How do we deal with it Ďsucking outí bass?

Speaker placement did it in our room.
+ 4 dB of bass!
__________________
Stereo: Hegel H590, Burmester 061 - 948 - V3 & V6 racks, Vivid Audio G2 Giyas, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse IC and SE SC
AV: Hegel C-53, Marantz AV8802A, Oppo BDP-203EU, Pioneer Kuro 60", Vivid Audio C1 & V1w's, Wireworld SE & E
In storage: Halgorythme amplifiers
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:57 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2019 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Acoustic Sciences Corportation
Acoustic Sciences Corportation
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Accuphase
Accuphase