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Acoustical Treatments Because the room matters

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Old 03-29-2016, 01:00 PM
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Default Dedicated 2 Channel Build

Yesterday the wife and I pull the trigger and signed an agreement of sale for a new, to be built home.

The basement will be the home of my dedicated audio room and I optioned the house with 2 options that may help with this project. 9' concrete foundation ( 10' was not an option) and a 4' bump-out which also extends the basement foundation.

This portion of the basement could yield a dimension of 17'Wx44'Lx9'H with the front quarter of the room being solid concrete. ( opted no window in that front wall)

In everyone's experience, is it best to use the full 44' length for this room or use one of the room sizing calculators I.E 1:1.6:2.33? If using the ratio given, i'm being told the ideal room size should be 14'x21x9' which sounds more realistic given Id need to build framing inside of the foundation. ( using a dimension like this would also allow me to split the room in two for a dedicated music library)


I'm jumping the gun here with trying to design something that not even build. Settlement isn't until early sept but excited about my own dedicated room!

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

Erik
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:17 AM
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Erik,

I recently built a room in the basement, in far less space than you have available. My room is about 13 x 20 x 7. How nice it would have been if I could increase the headroom! I love your 9 ft ceiling. Yet with careful speaker choice and placement, plus a good deal of acoustic treatment, I have been able to get excellent sound in my room.

Your width and length are both multiples of 7 ft. You might want to change that.

Also, I was told by one of the acoustics companies (maybe ASC) that they preferred width of at least 14' for best acoustics. My own experience would agree, in that my old, wider, room was easier to set up acoustically than this one.

Personally, I like a large room for audio, but perhaps not 44 feet long! I found this room calculator helpful: http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm Be aware that the effective room dimensions may not be the same as the interior dimensions, because bass will travel through the walls to some degree, much more than through the concrete of the foundation.

One warning: In a (partially) concrete-enclosed room, you will have strong bass nodes. I know that my room does. I have many large bass traps (which helps a lot), subwoofers to even out the bass, and I'm using some of the EQ in my Classe CP-800 preamp to help even it out more. Your larger dimensions might help some in that regard.

If you are in or near an urban area where you might be able to find a qualified acoustician to advise you, that might be worth checking out. I did hire one for a few hours to advise about ventilation and soundproofing. If there is mechanical equipment in the basement, you will need to consider that, too. Soundproof construction, however, will increase the issue of bass nodes. There is no free lunch!

I hope some of that helps a little.
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Last edited by Mike-48; 03-30-2016 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:32 AM
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You have a golden opportunity to design a room with largely hidden, yet extensive, bass traps. Hire the aforementioned acoustician plus do your own research and you could end up with real magic. Also, prewire and/or run empty conduit through your wall studs during construction, including Cat 6, multiple 20 amp circuits and wiring for the home theater you don't want now, but will want later. Good luck!!
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Old 03-30-2016, 09:51 AM
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Great input so far. Yes on dedicated 20 Amp lines and conduit etc! Yes on the Acoustician and thinking about the room nodes and HVAC needs. You will have nodes no matter what size you choose but they can be handled with an integrated plan.

My thought to build on all that is to think through your overall use of the basement - besides the two channel room and theater.

Will you want storage (boxes, XMAS, folding chairs/tables, etc). Will you want a wine cellar? Where are the Windows, exit doors?

Make the two channel space part of the purpose designed basement rather than to finish a basement around the two channel room.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:11 PM
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Thanks for all the good advice!

It is nice to have the ability to build from scratch and all of the suggestions have been considered. Hidden bass traps, Conduit runs, separate circuits, pre-wiring for future theater.

I still get very confused with room size and modes, Effective and Interior dimensions. If i frame the actual room and if sound travels though the walls ( planning on iso clips- resilient channel and 2-3 layers of sheet rock) Do I base the dimensions off the foundation size or the actual framed room size?

What about ceiling? If the basement foundation is 9', and they use 10" floor joints does that mean i base the height off the bottom of the floor joist ( 9'ceiling), The basement floor to the 1st floor plywood ( 9'10") or the basement floor to surface of sheetrock?

Storage and functionality: this basement is pretty big and is one of the reasons for choosing this model. There will be a separate section just for hvac and utility, and another area for storage, recreation area etc.

Hopefully in the next couple months ill have some pictures of the foundation/house allowing me to give a better idea of space.

Thanks again

Erik
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Old 03-31-2016, 07:38 AM
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My room is 7.4' H X 13.7' W X 19.8' L and I would kill for a larger room. I have whisper clips / channels on the four walls and ceiling with only one layer of 5/8" drywall. The next level up of isolation is to add a second layer of drywall with Green Glue in between. My room sits below our family room and is pretty quiet except when I am driving things pretty hard and there is a load low bass passage.

If I had more room and design options, I would make the room 16' wide at a minimum and 26' long and would have added the second layer of drywall. I would also like more windows and /or more lights.

Good luck with this. Don't stress over the 'perfect' dimension. Give yourself enough room to have sound treatments to help there and find an acoustician and designer.
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Main room - Sonus Faber Stradivari, JL Audio F113v2 & CR-1 Crossover, McIntosh MC2301 Amplifiers with Stillpoint Ultra SS feet, McIntosh C1100 on Stillpoint Minis, Esoteric K-03X on Stillpoint Minis, Cybershaft Ultimate 2 OP17 on Stillpoint Minis, SilenZio v.2 Audio by -E- Media Server (running ROON), GigaFoil v4, Keces P3 with Ghent PC, 9 M Supra Cat 8+ and 0.65 M Revelation audio ethernet cables.

Other - 5 Stillpoint Apertures, GIK Bass Traps, Vicoustics Waveguide panels, Shunyata Alpha Clock 75 1.5 meter BNC, Shunyata Alpha 1.5 meter USB, WW Gold Eclipse 7 SCs, WW Silver Electra 7 PCs, WW Silver Eclipse ICs; 3 X 20 Amp Power lines, PS Audio P10 & Dectet, 3 Sound Anchor stands, Powerports and numerous Noise Harvesters. Furutech Flex 50, Cable risers, HRS dampeners

TV Room Audio - Panasonic TC-P60GT50, McIntosh MX-121, MC7106, Revel F52 & C32, B&W LM1, Sonos Connect\W4S Remedy\iFI 9V Power, WW & Kimber cables, PS Audio Dectet
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vego99 View Post
Thanks for all the good advice! It is nice to have the ability to build from scratch and all of the suggestions have been considered. Hidden bass traps, Conduit runs, separate circuits, pre-wiring for future theater. I still get very confused with room size and modes, Effective and Interior dimensions. If i frame the actual room and if sound travels though the walls ( planning on iso clips- resilient channel and 2-3 layers of sheet rock) Do I base the dimensions off the foundation size or the actual framed room size? What about ceiling? If the basement foundation is 9', and they use 10" floor joints does that mean i base the height off the bottom of the floor joist ( 9'ceiling), The basement floor to the 1st floor plywood ( 9'10") or the basement floor to surface of sheetrock? Storage and functionality: this basement is pretty big and is one of the reasons for choosing this model. There will be a separate section just for hvac and utility, and another area for storage, recreation area etc. Hopefully in the next couple months ill have some pictures of the foundation/house allowing me to give a better idea of space. Thanks again Erik
Sorry late to your discussion. I have a 33x27x8 room in basement very much like yours. Make sure you use long wall to position speakers. Also placement will be critical. As I've learned with my Aerial 7Ts placement is everything. And treatments a must. I've been fighting a bit of too much sparkle in highs and then it hit me. Two cocktail tables with glass inserts. Purchased 24"x48" rugs to fit over glass and like magic. Audio Nirvana. The funny thing is I've been a CEDIA installer for over 10 years and it never occurred to me to do the simple thing. Point being. Try everything and anything. Good luck!
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Old 06-06-2016, 01:51 PM
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Update on house:

Ever since the death of Prince, we received about 37 days of rain and a large delay to the home building process.

In the past 1.5 weeks, we finally got the foundation footers and foundation walls poured. Framing should start this week.

Here are some pictures of the progress.. I also added some pictures of a completed basement minus the 4' extension where i plan to put the music room.

After walking through a completed basement, i am going to have to deal with a couple support beams. That being said, the total length of the room will prob be just under 20' allowing its own entrance. This is due to the stairs coming down in to the center portion of the basement in the wing of the planned room. I just dont think its wise to have the room open considering i have dogs and a child.

The other option is to use the area on the opposite side of the stairs. I could potentially make two rooms.. A much smaller listening room with a music library for all my music, but you will see i will be wrestling with support beams.

Erik



The Bump out is where the proposed listening room will be.


Far pole will be about where the back wall of the room will be.


Looking towards anticipated back wall. and will provide walkway to center section of basement


Other side of stairs





New home by vego99, on Flickr

Utility area ( furnace back)


Last edited by vego99; 06-07-2016 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:38 PM
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Hey vego99, I'm interested to see how your project progresses. Congratulations and good luck!
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:54 AM
Pampero Pampero is offline
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Get the acoustician. Ask your architect if he works with anybody. There are several people available in Portland. You can PM me for a few names if you don't locate anybody on your own.
What fun! I'll watch with interest.
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Last edited by Pampero; 06-13-2016 at 01:02 AM.
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