Stillpoints are in the House!

[bzr]

Originally Posted by oddeophile

So glad I am not the only one with Stillpoints "disease". LOL. It is easier to give up other social recreational items than these marvelous devices. I had the same reaction with 5's under my speakers. Still do each time I listen.

Under all components I use a quad set of 5's and where room allows in my rack (preamp/power supply/amp) I have ultra bases under the 5's. That seems to add a touch of additional isolation but not day/night difference. However, working through the process I ended up with 5's under everything in my main 2 channel system except for my two P10 power plants which reside on a quad set of SS's with ultra bases under them.

One keeps wanting to go the next level after each addition. Like I said, the "disease".

However, a great one to have, if one has to have a disease.

If you want to really test how these spoil you gotten just remove a set from just one component in your system after having lived with them for a week or so and note your immediate and intense dislike for what you hear.

They'll be your new best friends fir life.

Odd

I have done this a few times & you are spot on with this. Just the other night I sat & listened to a very familiar song, removed the 5's under my speakers & then replayed, only to stop half way through the song to reapply the 5's. The difference was like dirty copper & clean silver, admittedly though, it was on a floating floor.

[audiot servant]

Originally Posted by cmarin

Would be very interested in hearing specifics of how you are using the Ultra 5s throughout your system. There are so many ways (e.g., racks, grids, bases, standalone etc.) to combine even just the Ultra 5s with the various audio components, that sharing your specific experience would be very beneficial for those of us looking to dip our toe into, or expand our existing Stillpoints systems.

About a year and a half ago I started with 8 x SS then shortly after added 6 x minis, 6 x U5s and 6 more SS so I had enough to try most every combination under everything.

My components are relatively modest so I wasn't intending to go all Ultra 5s but the performance differences aren't at all subtle. For instance I've heard the Esoteric KO-3, KO-1 and DO-2 quite a few times at a mates place and here and while the steps up with these as you go up are appreciable but ultimately the differences between all these great bits of gear are relatively subtle compared to how very, very much better the U5s are over the SS and in truth the minis (while as good as many similarly priced footers) aren't ultimately in the race with either the SS or U5s once you have a mix of Ultra 5s in the circuit letting you hear what's going on.

Some things I've found along the way... but as always allow for system to system varying mileage;

Yes unfortunately 4 of any Ultra is regularly better than 3 and the oft quoted factor of about 25% seems about right.

If the gear is of a smaller footprint and you can make it work then 1 x Ultra 5 is a better sounding and more economical way than 4 Ultra SS - the U5 is more dynamic and the music is more 'of a piece'.

If gear is relatively light and you are using U5s you should probably at least try mass loading as well to see if you get further benefits.

Using Stillpoints just under a rack rather than giving each component its own isolation is a large loss of the ultimate performance of the ultras.

Floating the whole circuit is the aim and for speakers U5s are really the benchmark.

Ending up with a room full of U5s is always a risk with just trying a few of them. I've now heard these used in various systems from $50k to $500k and the effect is similarly profound.

With Ultras for components try and stick to predominately one grade up or down either way ie aim for a mix of Minis and the SS or go to a mix of Ultra SS and Ultra 5s as you'll always hear the weakest link in the chain once you get a few U5s throughout the system.

Don't spend the kids inheritance unless you figure on just leaving them the Ultra 5s... tho what a great parting gift!

In the end it is easy to end up spending quite a bit so as always everyone should play, build and explore with these and find their own way but for me I have found it expensive but good value fundamental infrastructure that will bring lasting joy no matter what else comes or goes in the system.

Hope this helps.

[cmarin]

Originally Posted by audiot servant

About a year and a half ago I started with 8 x SS then shortly after added 6 x minis, 6 x U5s and 6 more SS so I had enough to try most every combination under everything. My components are relatively modest so I wasn't intending to go all Ultra 5s but the performance differences aren't at all subtle. For instance I've heard the Esoteric KO-3, KO-1 and DO-2 quite a few times at a mates place and here and while the steps up with these as you go up are appreciable but ultimately the differences between all these great bits of gear are relatively subtle compared to how very, very much better the U5s are over the SS and in truth the minis (while as good as many similarly priced footers) aren't ultimately in the race with either the SS or U5s once you have a mix of Ultra 5s in the circuit letting you hear what's going on. Some things I've found along the way... but as always allow for system to system varying mileage; Yes unfortunately 4 of any Ultra is regularly better than 3 and the oft quoted factor of about 25% seems about right. If the gear is of a smaller footprint and you can make it work then 1 x Ultra 5 is a better sounding and more economical way than 4 Ultra SS - the U5 is more dynamic and the music is more 'of a piece'. If gear is relatively light and you are using U5s you should probably at least try mass loading as well to see if you get further benefits. Using Stillpoints just under a rack rather than giving each component its own isolation is a large loss of the ultimate performance of the ultras. Floating the whole circuit is the aim and for speakers U5s are really the benchmark. Ending up with a room full of U5s is always a risk with just trying a few of them. I've now heard these used in various systems from $50k to $500k and the effect is similarly profound. With Ultras for components try and stick to predominately one grade up or down either way ie aim for a mix of Minis and the SS or go to a mix of Ultra SS and Ultra 5s as you'll always hear the weakest link in the chain once you get a few U5s throughout the system. Don't spend the kids inheritance unless you figure on just leaving them the Ultra 5s... tho what a great parting gift! In the end it is easy to end up spending quite a bit so as always everyone should play, build and explore with these and find their own way but for me I have found it expensive but good value fundamental infrastructure that will bring lasting joy no matter what else comes or goes in the system. Hope this helps.

audiot,

A number of very informative and helpful insights. Thank you.

Could you elaborate on what Stillpoints you use on which equipment and how they are arranged (e.g., uniformly such as under the existing footers; or non uniformly - distributed under specific parts of the chassis such as transformers or transports)?

Which components did you find get the biggest increase in performance by using the U5s vs the Ultra SS (or minis)? And conversely which components had less dramatic differences in performance between the U5s and the Ultra SS (or minis)?

Other discussions have suggested that the isolation priority from highest to lowest is speakers first, then power distribution and conditioning, then amplifiers, and finally sources. Does this agree with your findings?

Finally, did you find any benefit to using the Ultra bases?

Thanks again for sharing your valuable insights.

[allvinyl]

Our philosophy is to isolate every component in the system, starting with speakers, then power related (distribution, conditioning, etc), then components with transformers(amps, etc), then sources. Try locating isolation under chassis areas with transports or other internals that generate a lot of vibration. Experimenting is key to achieving best performance.

John

Originally Posted by cmarin

audiot,

A number of very informative and helpful insights. Thank you.

Could you elaborate on what Stillpoints you use on which equipment and how they are arranged (e.g., uniformly such as under the existing footers; or non uniformly - distributed under specific parts of the chassis such as transformers or transports)?

Which components did you find get the biggest increase in performance by using the U5s vs the Ultra SS (or minis)? And conversely which components had less dramatic differences in performance between the U5s and the Ultra SS (or minis)?

Other discussions have suggested that the isolation priority from highest to lowest is speakers first, then power distribution and conditioning, then amplifiers, and finally sources. Does this agree with your findings?

Finally, did you find any benefit to using the Ultra bases?

Thanks again for sharing your valuable insights.

[Masterlu]

Here are some pics of the Ultra SS on my TAD R'1's

[chessman]

I now have four Ultra 5's under each Sophia 2 speaker. My system uses an active cross-over, set at 50 H, and "stereo" subs. I immediately noticed a more visceral feel to the music because attack is sharper, the noise floor is a bit lower, and minor detail is more apparent. A full range frequency sweep is slightly more linear than when the speakers were on spikes. One problem area at 250 H got better - a minus 10dB null became about a minus 5dB null.

I did not experience the "component upgrade" reaction described by some. I think the active cross-over and subs are the reason - they are handling 50 H and down and they do not have Stillpoints under them. I think that tighter bass (and the resulting clean up of the mid-range) is the likely result when the mains are not crossed to subs (based on how much clearer the mid-range sounds with the Ultra 5's). I also infer this because I do not have to realign my speakers at all since the bass remains the same as before below 50 H. Sound stage width and depth has stayed the same.

As usual upgrades are system dependent. There is no "magic bullet" upgrade that reacts the same in every system. Of course, now I am thinking about "floating" the cross-over and the subs.

[Masterlu]

I received about 100lbs of Stillpoints today for my various systems. I'll post more pics as I install them.

[amorrisjr]

I am just learning, through the comments herein, about the potential benefit of the Still Point products and would appreciate advice from forum members on the Still Points as well as other plans for my system.

I currently have two Krell 600e mono amps resting on Sound Anchor amp stands. I have an Esoteric K-1, Esoteric C-02 and an Audio Magic Nexxus conditioner positioned in a SolidSteel rack sitting on some low grade isolation pads. I have two Focal 1038Be speakers but have not added the spikes/pads that came with the speakers.

My short term (2-4 months) plans are to purchase an Esoteric G-01 clock and add GIK acoustic panels and have been working with GIK on a design. I will also be replacing the rack with either a Steve Blinn model or, preferably, the SRA Craz Ref 4 rack.

My long term (1-2 years) is to replace the Focal 1038s with either the Focal Stella Utopia or Sonus Fabre Aida speakers.

Should I start with the StillPoints in the current system now or wait until I have the new rack, the G-01 and GIK panels? If I went with StillPoints on the current Focals, would they be useable on the Stellas or Aidas being considered in the long term.

All comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated as I have relied heaviliy on forum input in putting together my current system.

Thanks

Ashley

[chessman]

Ashley, Stillpoints on speaker "A" are easily transferable to speaker "B," although you may have to use different adapter studs (not a big deal). As to "now" vs. "later" that is a tough call. Stillpoints are not magic; they will not fix first reflections, poor speaker placement, or timing errors in a CD player. On the other hand, they seem to make a distinct improvement on many speakers (although not all). I would be tempted to make small changes incrementally so that I could learn what the effect of each change was. If your room needs acoustic treatment (and it almost certainly will), it will need it with or without Stillpoints.

[jimtranr]

Ashley, since you've already included acoustic treatment in your short-term plan, you might want to go ahead as well--and, as Randy suggests, incrementally--with Stillpoints under your speakers as your starting point.

To determine what the Stillpoints bring to the table, I'd begin by installing your GIK panels/traps first and spending some time listening to your system/room in its acoustics-treated state to get a feel for how everything sounds without the Stillpoints. Then install the SP's under your Focals and draw your conclusions about what they contribute to system performance using the same program material. From there, if you determine that they're beneficial, you can then Stillpoint your program sources, amplification, etc., as you deem appropriate.