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  #1  
Old 10-28-2015, 10:11 PM
audiomania audiomania is offline
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Default Question's about S3 & S5 Magico

Hello,

I'm curious to her from Magcio owners how picky these speakers are in terms of distance placement from the front wall and what would be the minimum amplifier power needed to drive these speakers?

I recently demo'd the S3 in a room where the spekers were approx 8-10feet away from the front wall in a room that was about 17ft wide by 30ft long and was fully treated with a cost no object level of panels..etc.

The speakers sounded like they had a very deep soundstage but lacked width IMO. There was very little info that extended beyond the outside cabinet width but there was a lot of info present in terms of soundstage depth. The speakers were driven by all Spectral gear and the amp was said to put out 260w per channel from the stereo Spectral amp driving them.

My room is 15ft wide by 24ft long and I have my current speakers setup along the long wall due to it needing to be that way. I have, at most, maybe 4ft available to play with in terms of front wall placement if I wish to maintain my current 9ft distance listening position. How do these speakers behave with a fairly minimal front wall placement but large side wall distance?

Lastly, I believe I've read that the S3 Magio dips into the 1.6ohm region on certain freq's. Given that info, and assuming it's correct, what would you say is the minimal amp powered needed to drive these puppies in to the 105db range cleanly?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-29-2015, 06:16 AM
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imprezap2 imprezap2 is offline
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I don't own the S3/S5 but the older V3's. My preference is as far from the rear wall as required (neutral zone, no extra or less bass)

I have tried the Spectral DMC30 with power amp 260 in my own system, in some ways better then the Accuphase E-600 I am using, but definitly not in soundstage, with the E-600 in the system the soundstage is much wider.

Most Magico's need amplification that can deliver a lot of current, preferbly stable at 2 Ohm or lower. (that's why the E-600 works very well in my medium sized room)

hope this helps
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Old 10-29-2015, 07:18 AM
cmarin cmarin is offline
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I've heard the S5s with Absolare SETs (52w) in a room measuring approximately 20'x27' with the back of the speakers about 6' into the room. The soundstage depth and width were well beyond the speakers, and volume levels could easily reach live concert levels.

I'm using Q7mkIIs (94db) in an acoustically treated room measuring approximately 18'x25' with both Absolare SETs (52w) and Soulution 701 monos.

The back of the speakers are about 6' into the room. The resulting soundstage depth for both amps is very layered and deep, and the width extends to the room walls. Realistically live volumes can be obtained with either set of amps.

I've found that, at least in my system, the soundstage is more influenced by the distortion/noise of the electrical power and in the source components than the power (watts) of the amplifiers. Of course YMMV.

Last edited by cmarin; 10-29-2015 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 10-29-2015, 01:10 PM
Venere Venere is offline
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This is asking/stating the obvious, but did you do the demo with recordings that you are very familiar with? Some recordings have a wide soundstage and some (most?) dont. Knowing Magico, they are likley more faithful to the recording than most other speakers, so the recording is probably the biggest variable.
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Old 10-29-2015, 07:27 PM
audiomania audiomania is offline
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Thanks for the info, though I'm still not so sure if I have an understanding of how close these speakers could be placed to the Front wall and still be happy. Granted, moving them out as far as possible is ideal but would you think that 4ft should pose an issue? I guess the fact that these are sealed should "in theory" make them more friendly to close placement then a ported box.

When I demo'd the speakers it was unfortunately with unfamiliar music but I did demo them back to back (with different gear using the same unfamiliar songs) with the new B&W 803D3's which by contrast had a much wider soundstage and closer presentation. In both cases the speakers were pretty far from the front wall. I would say the Magico S3 was staged another 2ft or so further away from the front wall in the room compared to the B&W.

I was certainly interesting to hear these two speakers back to back and see how different they sound from one another. I don't think I could easily say which one was better then the other though if forced to decide and only given one listen to make a choice I would probably lean towards the B&W if for no other reason then it being very energetic and up close and personal compared to the Magico which was totally laid back and hyper focused on presenting the center part of the soundstage.

Whether or not the features I heard via the B&W would become fatiguing in the long run is hard to say.
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Old 10-29-2015, 08:08 PM
marsalis marsalis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomania View Post
... I would probably lean towards the B&W if for no other reason then it being very energetic and up close and personal compared to the Magico which was totally laid back and hyper focused on presenting the center part of the soundstage.
These will be the exact reasons NOT to choose them… A recipe for a long frustrating (and expensive) road to try and tame them (simply not possible). I have listened to the new 803, and was almost instantly fatigued, it is a B&W alright... Regardless, a home audition is highly recommended
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:04 AM
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I have a slight different view on the B&W's , a good friend has the 802 diamond, and the mid and highs are not fatiguing in his room. Overall the 802D2's have more energy in the low frequencies, but the V3's counter that by being faster and more precise.

When I listen to my setup it's easier to follow the different instruments and voices, placement is more precise and soundstage is wider. My friends set up with the B&W's counters that with more energy and more resolution in the high frequencies. In conclusion I have to sy, I like listening to both sets, as different as they are.

I prefer the Magico's to be in a neutral zone, basically you can try walking slowly from your back wall and listen to your own voice, there comes a point your voice will sound natural, no frequencies "amplified", if you start placing your speakers in that zone and then make sure tweeter distance to listening position is exactly the same, in my experience you get the best result. (although some people will be able to do this last part by ear and moving the speakers slightly)

If I put the V3's closer to the back wall, the low frequencies increase in level, and imo not in balance anymore.

In the end the only way to find out the best solution is to try different set ups in your own room and then settle for what you prefer.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarin View Post
I've found that, at least in my system, the soundstage is more influenced by the distortion/noise of the electrical power and in the source components than the power (watts) of the amplifiers. Of course YMMV.
+1
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Old 10-30-2015, 07:05 PM
audiomania audiomania is offline
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I currently own 803 D2 now as my main speaker and am familiar with the B&W soundstage presentation as far as D2's go. I've not yet been put off by its more intimate listening experience but the D3 did seem even more intimate which is why it's hard for me to say if that little bit of extra intimacy will be tiresome in the long run. To be fair, the 803 D3 when I heard them were litteraly just out of the boxes they shipped in so break in had not yet occurred.

In any case, I now have more Magcio questions

Has anyone had success using a JL Sub in combo with their fast Magico's?

In terms of amp power requirements, I've heard that the S3 can be powered by as little as 50w as long as the amp is rated to output high currents and handle lower then normal impedances. With that said, I believe I have this part covered already and would intend to, at least initially, use my Hypex NC400 mono blocs to power the S3's. The amps are good for 24amps of current and output 400w into 4ohms with a rating of just about 575w into 2ohms all with extremely low distortion, a basically non existent noise floor and are neutral to a fault. Seems like a good pairing for a speaker like the S3 but my only fear is that all this neutrality could make for a boring and lifeless sounding system compared to a more "colorful" speaker like the B&W. I guess only time will tell on this one.

Thanks again for your thoughts.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:46 PM
cmarin cmarin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomania View Post
I currently own 803 D2 now as my main speaker and am familiar with the B&W soundstage presentation as far as D2's go. I've not yet been put off by its more intimate listening experience but the D3 did seem even more intimate which is why it's hard for me to say if that little bit of extra intimacy will be tiresome in the long run. To be fair, the 803 D3 when I heard them were litteraly just out of the boxes they shipped in so break in had not yet occurred. In any case, I now have more Magcio questions Has anyone had success using a JL Sub in combo with their fast Magico's? In terms of amp power requirements, I've heard that the S3 can be powered by as little as 50w as long as the amp is rated to output high currents and handle lower then normal impedances. With that said, I believe I have this part covered already and would intend to, at least initially, use my Hypex NC400 mono blocs to power the S3's. The amps are good for 24amps of current and output 400w into 4ohms with a rating of just about 575w into 2ohms all with extremely low distortion, a basically non existent noise floor and are neutral to a fault. Seems like a good pairing for a speaker like the S3 but my only fear is that all this neutrality could make for a boring and lifeless sounding system compared to a more "colorful" speaker like the B&W. I guess only time will tell on this one. Thanks again for your thoughts.
I've never heard the S3s or the Hypex monos, but I've heard the S5s paired with Absolare SET monos (52w) and at another time with the Audio Note (Japan) Kagura monos, and I would not characterize the sound of either of these pairings as being lifeless by any stretch of the imagination.

Of course these are great tube amps. And some have characterized the sound of Magico paired with some solid state amps as being sterile.

What I have found in my limited experience, is that, in general, it is distortion/noise in the speakers and source and amplification, as well as power and a cables, that can sometimes lead to leaning toward a sterile nature of the sound with solid state amplification.

In general, the less distortion, the more musical and engaging will be the sound; and Magicos are known for their neutrality and lack of distortion.

You can apply band aids (e.g., frequency bumps in the frequency response of cables or components including speakers) to warm a sterile sound; but ultimately the best choice is to reduce distortion in your system. And the best place to start toward a lower distortion sound is with lower distortion speakers.

Of course YMMV.

Last edited by cmarin; 10-30-2015 at 08:49 PM.
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