2 questions...

[Jerome W]

Hello friends,

Philippe ( Rafale ) and me initiated a discussion rather interesting about the relative importance of a TT and its phono stage.
I would be curious to get your opinion and answers especially regarding these 2 questions :

First question :
You have 18k to spend in an analog set up ( yes, you're lucky AND crazy ! ).
What would you do between those two options, what do you think would sound the best ? :

A) Buy a TT/ Arm / cart up to 6 or 7 k and a high end phono stage up to 12k or

B) Buy a high end TT / Arm / cart up to 15 or 16k and an average phono stage up to 3K or use the phono stage included in your preamplifier ?

Second Question :

Between solution A and B, do you think that the final result could be :

- A clearly better than B
- B clearly better than A
- both solutions could be good, and differences will be rather small, depending on the elements chosen.

[BlueChiaro]

Jerome, I do find this an interesting question. I'm currently in the "high end table/lower end phono stage" ownership camp, but that was not by design...rather, it was by opportunity. As with all decisions in this hobby, it's difficult to view any as an absolute since upgrades happen as years (or months, weeks, days, hours ) go by. Surely, you'll get the best out of your front end with a great phono stage; whereas, if you "skimp" on the phono stage, you're, literally, leaving a lot on the table.

Being just ten months into this vinyl journey, I'd say that if I had to choose between your options, forever, I'd go the "good TT, cart, arm" and "great phono stage" route. I think that would give me the most inner peace...knowing that I'm getting the best from my front end. Will it sound better than option B? That, I don't know...I think it will depend on the elements chosen. I'm anxious to hear the thoughts of others...

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by BlueChiaro

Jerome, I do find this an interesting question. I'm currently in the "high end table/lower end phono stage" ownership camp, but that was not by design...rather, it was by opportunity. As with all decisions in this hobby, it's difficult to view any as an absolute since upgrades happen as years (or months, weeks, days, hours ) go by. Surely, you'll get the best out of your front end with a great phono stage; whereas, if you "skimp" on the phono stage, you're, literally, leaving a lot on the table.

Being just ten months into this vinyl journey, I'd say that if I had to choose between your options, forever, I'd go the "good TT, cart, arm" and "great phono stage" route. I think that would give me the most inner peace...knowing that I'm getting the best from my front end. Will it sound better than option B? That, I don't know...I think it will depend on the elements chosen. I'm anxious to hear the thoughts of others...

Robert, thanks a lot for your honest answer. You would choose option A while you're actually already in the B camp because the SME is a high end TT and if you add later on a high end phono stage, then you will be in the C camp ( High end TT AND high end phono stage ).
Only problem with the C is the total money spent which can be rather huge !

[BlueChiaro]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

Robert, thanks a lot for your honest answer. You would choose option A while you're actually already in the B camp because the SME is a high end TT and if you add later on a high end phono stage, then you will be in the C camp ( High end TT AND high end phono stage ).
Only problem with the C is the total money spent which can be rather huge !

I'm happy to provide my opinion, Jerome. Here was my strategy, initially: I bought a Rega RP1 & the Nighthawk phono stage as a starter setup...never owned vinyl before last November. I opted for the Nighthawk thinking that it could handle a nicer table in case I moved up, a bit. So, in essence, based on my initial plans, I was in camp A (phono stage better than table...at least, in my uninformed, novice opinion). However, I loved the vinyl experience SO MUCH, that I decided I wanted a GREAT table. As such, I was gravitating towards the P9 before a fellow member decided to sell his SME. I decided to take advantage of that opportunity...knowing that my weak link was now my phono stage. So, yes, in due time, I'll most surely be in camp "C"...I think it stands for CRAZY.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by BlueChiaro

I'm happy to provide my opinion, Jerome. Here was my strategy, initially: I bought a Rega RP1 & the Nighthawk phono stage as a starter setup...never owned vinyl before last November. I opted for the Nighthawk thinking that it could handle a nicer table in case I moved up, a bit. So, in essence, based on my initial plans, I was in camp A (phono stage better than table...at least, in my uninformed, novice opinion). However, I loved the vinyl experience SO MUCH, that I decided I wanted a GREAT table. As such, I was gravitating towards the P9 before a fellow member decided to sell his SME. I decided to take advantage of that opportunity...knowing that my weak link was now my phono stage. So, yes, in due time, I'll most surely be in camp "C"...I think it stands for CRAZY.

Absolutely nuts Robert, that's right !

[restock]

Solidly in camp "A":

DPS turntable, Schroeder No. 2 arm, Allaerts MC1B cartridge

Phono: Pass XP-15, Shindo Monbrison Built in phono

Having listened to $9k phonostages and $5k tables I believe I am on the right track

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by restock

Solidly in camp "A":

DPS turntable, Schroeder No. 2 arm, Allaerts MC1B cartridge

Phono: Pass XP-15, Shindo Monbrison Built in phono

Having listened to $9k phonostages and $5k tables I believe I am on the right track

+1 !
Thanks for sharing.
I forgot to mention that I'm a A too.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

Hello friends,

Philippe ( Rafale ) and me initiated a discussion rather interesting about the relative importance of a TT and its phono stage.
I would be curious to get your opinion and answers especially regarding these 2 questions :

First question :
You have 18k to spend in an analog set up ( yes, you're lucky AND crazy ! ).
What would you do between those two options, what do you think would sound the best ? :

A) Buy a TT/ Arm / cart up to 6 or 7 k and a high end phono stage up to 12k or

B) Buy a high end TT / Arm / cart up to 15 or 16k and an average phono stage up to 3K or use the phono stage included in your preamplifier ?

Second Question :

Between solution A and B, do you think that the final result could be :

- A clearly better than B
- B clearly better than A
- both solutions could be good, and differences will be rather small, depending on the elements chosen.

Jérôme.......I have just under $7K in my turntable/tonearm/MC cartridge/outboard power supply unit. I am presently enjoying the moving coil phono stage in the McIntosh C2300 preamplifier with a pair of NOS Telefunken 12AX7 tubes in the MC phono stage and in the line stage. Surprisingly it is very good. Still, I think I can gain improvement with a quality external phono stage preamplifier, but don't feel compelled to make any immediate decision. I am in the research stage of my decision process.

I take exception that a $3K phono stage would be considered average, since there are so many far less expensive phono stages available that could more aptly be identified as average, including many built into line stage preamplifiers. There is also the option of $3K being spent on a preowned phono preamp, in which case we would be talking about a $5K to $6K phono preamp acquired for half its original retail value. This option offers the best opportunity for the greatest return on value verses cost.

It seems that $6K buys an excellent new phono stage preamp, with the next plateau jumping to $10K/$12K very fast for the next incremental performance improvements. You mentioned in another thread about reaching a point of diminishing return. In my opinion it begins to take place at the $6k level and up. This is not a slam on the ultra high-end phono preamps, merely an observation based on my knowledge level. As with everything audio, the weakest link is always the deterrent to higher quality sound reproduction. Of course, my opinion plus $3.00 will get you a Big Mac any day of the week.

[Jerome W]

Ok Dan.
I get your point.
A 6k table and a 6k phono stage is a well balanced and may be the best solution, cost wise.
But now try to ask yourself this question. You just earned a 6k gift certificate, to improve either your TT or your phonostage.
You can use this money only for that.
What would you upgrade ?

[Rafale]

hi folks

1 TT
2 Arm
3 cart

+ the very best S/H 3k phonostage you can buy ...the S/H offer is immense

The best phonostage of the world will never catch up the information lost by the TT