#11
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Assumptions:
Method X:
I recommend that the MEN220 be set-up at a processor loop on McIntosh Pre-amp for alternative to Method X. Method Y:
And there are many other methods, but Method Y allows the measurement hardware to account for the system response instead of individually adjusting everything and mixing it together. If you align the JL subs to your room perfectly and then you expertly calibrate your MEN220, separate from the JL Subs, to your room, their resultant or combined effect could have too much or too little of something. You'll require another measurement software/hardware to figure out what are the issues. I personally have not measured my room before and after when using these methods. However, it's prompted me to do so (at a later date). Hopefully it confirms what I hear and help us all better design and set-up our systems. Last edited by o0OBillO0o; 03-29-2015 at 11:04 AM. |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Here is a picture of what I am talking about: The blue line frequency response graph (no EQ, lots of traps) does not look too awful, but the 2D "waterfall" graph in the upper right corner shows the problem - a long resonance at 25H. That long decay when everything else is shorter makes makes for "boomy" bass even with a flat frequency response graph. But wait, there's more . I had not expected anything below 30H as that is where the sub rolls off. The room gain at 25 H was the culprit and does not even show on a frequency graph because the program does not plot resonance, just amplitude. Fortunately, the JL Audio amps come with an adjustment specifically at 25 H. I had always assumed it was there to boost the rumble effect for movies. Here it was a lifesaver as I turned it all the way DOWN. |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
Here is a shot after turning down the ELF adjustment at 25 H and after ARO was run on each sub, with no other EQ in a room with a lot of bass traps:
You can see that 25 H is still just a bit hot on the 2D waterfall graph, but it no longer booms. Believe it or not, your ears can hear a .2 millisecond difference in one bass note's resonance and your brain will decide that is the dominant note and ignore the rest, resulting in a perception of muddy one note bass. Once 25H was tamed the room seemed to have MORE bass and much more realistic sounding bass. Last edited by chessman; 03-29-2015 at 02:54 PM. Reason: clarity |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Awesome! this is very helpful, what software and hardware are you using? This may be a break through for my audio education.
|
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Bill, so as not to derail Ken's thread any further, i will just post a link:
http://www.audioaficionado.org/acous...er-ii-pro.html |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Ken
__________________
McIntosh C2300:Gold Lions 12AX7, McIntosh MC452, McIntosh D1100 , Bryston bdp-3, McIntosh MEN220 Linn Sondek 25th LP-12 upgraded, Encounter MK-3, Lyra Delos, Wegne Plinth, Ultra Origin DC motor, Cetech Subchassis Sonus Faber Cremona, (2) JL Audio F110 subs, Squeeze Server v7.9 Windows 2012 Server 25TB, Audio Metallurgy GA-0 XLR & RCA, Wireworld Silver Eclipse speaker cable, PS Audio Power Plant Premier (2), WireWorld Silver Power Cables, Tascam DA3000 |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
Ken, I would start, as follows:
1) set each sub to master, 2) turn each ELF to zero, and 3) run ARO separate on each sub. Where do you have them crossed? Are you using an active cross-over or "Y" splitters? |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Ken.......this thread answers your initial questions and has laid out ways to run ARO and RP separately, RP exclusively, and ARO first then RP. When in doubt stick to the manual, email/contact the manufacturer/dealer, and/or keep asking questions. We're just as into this as you are and willing to help.
|
#19
|
||||
|
||||
[QUOTE=o0OBillO0o;687568]Spend a weekend morning and try both
Assumptions:
Method X:
Well..... I've test version "X" vs MEN220 handle it all. Hmmmmm does sound different. Can't say "X" was better "original setup"??? My question is should you force a bass sound when the track doesn't have it???? Should I treat the 2 channel sub like "tonal control"? Ken
__________________
McIntosh C2300:Gold Lions 12AX7, McIntosh MC452, McIntosh D1100 , Bryston bdp-3, McIntosh MEN220 Linn Sondek 25th LP-12 upgraded, Encounter MK-3, Lyra Delos, Wegne Plinth, Ultra Origin DC motor, Cetech Subchassis Sonus Faber Cremona, (2) JL Audio F110 subs, Squeeze Server v7.9 Windows 2012 Server 25TB, Audio Metallurgy GA-0 XLR & RCA, Wireworld Silver Eclipse speaker cable, PS Audio Power Plant Premier (2), WireWorld Silver Power Cables, Tascam DA3000 |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
You can do what you like to get the sound that you like. I do not do as you have suggested.
Method X: ARO on each sub is correcting the response of the sub at the measured point (listening position). The MEN220 is correcting the speaker response at the measured point. However, as stated above, a third measurement device is required to understand the total system response. Method Y suggests using the MEN220 to correct the total response, in lieu of having software and hardware to measure the total system performance. |
|
|
Audio Aficionado Sponsors | |