Lets hear from Fosgate Signature Phono Preamp owners

[Josquin des Prez]

Originally Posted by Andrei

Len
My V1 & V2 were Union Research Branded. I can't really comment on them except by way of saying that the output as a whole is sublime. I have had the unit a while now and have ordered Telefunkens from Upscale Audio - will report in due course.

In relation to Dean's (Josquin des Prez) issues - I think he just got unlucky. In terms of noise what I have done is to put the volume up to about 60% of a normal listening level and put my ear to the speakers. The white noise, or is it pink noise? Nevermind! the noise is audible. But, it is less than the LP surface noise, can't be heard from 2 yards away and for my money it is for all practical purposes irrelevant.

Cheers, Andrei

Yeah, I got unlucky with my unit. It was defective and Musical Surroundings & Acoustic Sounds worked out a purchase credit for it [props to both companies]. The Herron VTPH-1 I got to replace it has been stellar. Ketih Herron has provided awesome support too. I have played around with replacing the V1 and V2 tubes in the Herron with Genalex Gold Lion B759 / ECC83 (12AX7). I'm still on the fence about them.

[Josquin des Prez]

Originally Posted by Josquin des Prez

Yeah, I got unlucky with my unit. It was defective and Musical Surroundings & Acoustic Sounds worked out a purchase credit for it [props to both companies]. The Herron VTPH-1 I got to replace it has been stellar. Ketih Herron has provided awesome support too. I have played around with replacing the V1 and V2 tubes in the Herron with Genalex Gold Lion B759 / ECC83 (12AX7). I'm still on the fence about them.

I've decided I really like the Gold Lions in my Herron after all and ordered a balanced set of 3 Gold Lion 12AT7 for the other three tube positions.

If I listen analytically, the stock tubes provide better timing and detail. However, for listening to music (rather than gear) the Gold Lions are a bit more lush – even if they are less accurate – and more musical in the end.

[Andrei]

Originally Posted by Josquin des Prez

I've decided I really like the Gold Lions in my Herron after all and ordered a balanced set of 3 Gold Lion 12AT7 for the other three tube positions.

If I listen analytically, the stock tubes provide better timing and detail. However, for listening to music (rather than gear) the Gold Lions are a bit more lush – even if they are less accurate – and more musical in the end.

I have come round to the Truth -vs- Beauty continuum way of thinking. So I have gone one direction with my digital sources and another direction with my analogue source. I have an overspecced PC for accuracy but when it comes to records then I prefer warmth and a good image over accuracy.

I have received my Telefunkens from Upscale Audio and they are running in at the moment. There are 6922s for V1 and V2. Actually while I think of it, a couple of questions: (1) is there any guidance as to how long one should run in small signal tubes? and (2) Is it necessary to have matched pairs for V1-V2, and for V3-V4?

TIA, Andrei

[Josquin des Prez]

Originally Posted by Andrei

I have come round to the Truth -vs- Beauty continuum way of thinking. So I have gone one direction with my digital sources and another direction with my analogue source. I have an overspecced PC for accuracy but when it comes to records then I prefer warmth and a good image over accuracy.

I have received my Telefunkens from Upscale Audio and they are running in at the moment. There are 6922s for V1 and V2. Actually while I think of it, a couple of questions: (1) is there any guidance as to how long one should run in small signal tubes? and (2) Is it necessary to have matched pairs for V1-V2, and for V3-V4?

TIA, Andrei

1) I don't know. I just play music and enjoy it, without worrying about burn-in times. As stuff breaks in and sounds better, I enjoy it more.
2) IIRC, Musical Surroundings told me the tube positions are not L/R channel specific and do not need to be matched.

[Len]

No, apparently you don't need matched tubes, just quiet, balanced ones. Foz himself, in another forum, says he just changes V3.

[Andrei]

Originally Posted by Josquin des Prez

1) I don't know. I just play music and enjoy it, without worrying about burn-in times. As stuff breaks in and sounds better, I enjoy it more.
2) IIRC, Musical Surroundings told me the tube positions are not L/R channel specific and do not need to be matched.

Originally Posted by Len

No, apparently you don't need matched tubes, just quiet, balanced ones. Foz himself, in another forum, says he just changes V3.

Thanks for info regarding tube matching guys.

Dean, I have got two reasons for needing an estimate on run-in time. One is that I can do the running in on my $200 cartridge (a Denon DL110), rather than my Benz Wood which costs $2,000. I guess even I can do the arithmetic: 50 hours = ...
The other reason is get a better before an after impression. In this case I can report a clear finding.

I have replaced the stock V1 and V2 tubes with NOS Telefunken E88CC / 6922. Telefunken E88CC / 6922 - Upscale Audio
The good news is that they showed more sparkle than the stock tubes (Union Research). There was, and still is, more detail.
The bad news is that they are noisier than the stock tubes. This is easy to check just by putting ones ear to the mid and treble speaker drivers. With the stock tube the background hiss definatey cannot be heard at one meter distance, but the Telefunkens are still just audible. I suppose this is not a big deal when my listening position is about 3 meters away.
Are they worth it? I would say probably not. I bought the 'platinum' option at $159 a tube (plus shipping). The improvements in sparkle and detail that I mentioned were not great - definitely audible, but not great.

[Josquin des Prez]

Originally Posted by Andrei

Thanks for info regarding tube matching guys.

Dean, I have got two reasons for needing an estimate on run-in time. One is that I can do the running in on my $200 cartridge (a Denon DL110), rather than my Benz Wood which costs $2,000. I guess even I can do the arithmetic: 50 hours = ...
The other reason is get a better before an after impression. In this case I can report a clear finding.

...

Fair enough. However, I don't remember what the run in time was. I don't think it was very long at all.

[Len]

Originally Posted by Andrei

Thanks for info regarding tube matching guys.

I have replaced the stock V1 and V2 tubes with NOS Telefunken E88CC / 6922. Telefunken E88CC / 6922 - Upscale Audio
The good news is that they showed more sparkle than the stock tubes (Union Research). There was, and still is, more detail.
The bad news is that they are noisier than the stock tubes. This is easy to check just by putting ones ear to the mid and treble speaker drivers. With the stock tube the background hiss definatey cannot be heard at one meter distance, but the Telefunkens are still just audible. I suppose this is not a big deal when my listening position is about 3 meters away.
Are they worth it? I would say probably not. I bought the 'platinum' option at $159 a tube (plus shipping). The improvements in sparkle and detail that I mentioned were not great - definitely audible, but not great.

This morning I ordered a pair of 6922 from Jim McShane. I wrote him in detail about the quietness required of the tubes and asking if he thought his most expensive Gold Lions would do the job. I'm trying to avoid the high price of NOS. His response was that he thought the less expensive "very low noise matched/balanced tubes will do just fine @$44.75 ea. "

When I get them, I'll let them burn in for a while and let you know how they do.

[Len]

The Gold Lion tubes arrived today. When I first put them in I was worried because, at my usual volume, they were noisier than the Chinese originals. I let them cook for about 10 minutes and they were still noisy, but when I tried them with music, it worked out well for they have MUCH more gain than the others. My Sim preamp which used to run at 23-24, now is at 17-18. So on balance they may be even quieter in actual use than the originals; it's hard to judge. And as long as you mentioned the word, they may also have a bit more sparkle. Again, hard to judge. I'll have to do much more listening.

[Andrei]

Originally Posted by Len

The Gold Lion tubes arrived today. When I first put them in I was worried because, at my usual volume, they were noisier than the Chinese originals. I let them cook for about 10 minutes and they were still noisy, but when I tried them with music, it worked out well for they have MUCH more gain than the others. My Sim preamp which used to run at 23-24, now is at 17-18. So on balance they may be even quieter in actual use than the originals; it's hard to judge. And as long as you mentioned the word, they may also have a bit more sparkle. Again, hard to judge. I'll have to do much more listening.

Interesting! Let us know how you get on after a wee while Len.