Audiogon dispute help

[Elberoth]

I have a problem with an item I recently bought on AudiogoN, and the dispute that followed. I'm curious what do you think about all this, esp. the Audiogon resolution.

Basicly, the $5000+ player that the seller described as near mint ('Many on Audiogon, may rate it a 9, I will call it an 8 due to the mark on the back of the remote and the fact that it is at least 5 years old.') turned out to be 6/10 condition, with scratches, dents and marks almost everywere, including the front panel. What is more, the player turned out to be modified, which was also not disclosed by the seller.

I emailed the seller three times after receiving the unit, but got NO reply whatsoever. So after 10+ days I had no choice but to give him a negative feedback. He contested the feedback and so the dispute was started.

In his response to AudiogoN staff, seller pointed out, that I contacted him too late (3 weeks after he shipped the unit), claimed that the unit was perfect, and demanded the negative feedback to be withdrawn.

Well, that was true that I contacted him later than usuall (I was not able to open the box earlier), however I have submitted and compared images sent by the seller prior to sale with images taken by me, that proved beyound doubt, that the damages in question were already there before the seller shipped the unit.

I was pretty sure at that point that the dispute will be resolved to my liking, afterall - the seller got caught lying, so imagine my surprise, when I found out that AudiogoN closed the dispute, saying that I should have contacted the him earlier !

I would agree with AgoN reasoning, if the damages were not visible on the images he submitted - afterall one could argue that that may have been made by me (or the shipping company, or whatever) during those 3 weeks. But they were visible on the images he submitted.

Therefore, it should be irrevelant, If I opened up the player a week, two, or three weeks after he shipped the unit.

One could ask why didn't I noticed thise imperfections on the images he sent me prior sale. First of all, the images provided were of poor quality, and although you could find those imperfectins, but only when you knew where to look. Secondly, I tend to rely on the discription and AgoN rating more that the images themselves - anyone who have taken images knows how easy it is to mask some imperfections with creative lighting and such.

The seller's feedback was close to 300, 100% positive, with an account started in 1999. Needless to say, my account is not that old, neither I have as much feedback (although it is still 100% positive), which puts me in a more difficoult position.

[Masterlu]

Although I haven't had alot of dealings on Agon buying gear, I have had success selling there.

As far as your situation, it sounds truly unfortunate. Perhaps you can dispute it with your credit card company.

I also think Agon's feedback system needs alot of improvement.

BTW, we have a Buy/Sell Forum right here on AA for Subscribers. Many of us, perhaps most far prefer to deal here with other like minded members.

Good Luck!

[klipschfan]

Try posting this on Audiogon-Two things will happen.

1.-It will never get posted

2.-You will get suspended for 14 days

Sort of like Las Vegas.

What happens on Audiogon stays on Audiogon.

[Elberoth]

I paid him by bank wire transfer, as he wanted to avoid PayPal fee (which would be substantial at $5000+ sale).

I just wanted to know what do you think. I'm very pissed, to say at least. But maybe I'm wrong and AudiogoN is right, I do not know ... beeing a part of this, I no longer objective.

That is why I'm asking for your point of view.

[Masterlu]

When a seller wants a bank wire it is a strong indicator of something wrong; unless you know exactly who you are dealing with, I would avoid using it.

[jdandy]

Elberoth.......This is most unfortunate. Waiting three weeks to inspect and identify a problem compounds the situation. Audiogon has no incentive on help you, because their resolution process isn't legally binding on the seller or the buyer, so essentially it's useless. Audiogon wants everyone to feel protected, when in fact it is always a case of buyer beware. You disregarded several of the rules I live by when shopping Audiogon. I ask for clear and current photos of all sides of the component. Always ask the seller to put a pencil in the photo laying on top of the gear. That way you know the photo is current. Never pay by wire transfer. As you now are quite aware, it offers no protection and no recourse for recovery. If a seller won't accept PayPal, I won't make the purchase unless it is an actual business that will accept a credit card. There is to much exposure with any other transaction. And finally, always inspect your shipment immediately when it arrives, not only for a fraudulent item, but for shipping damage done by the carrier. No carrier will accept a damage claim after a three week time period has elapsed.

It looks like you have been had. Try posting on Audiogon like Brian suggested. Also, PM me the seller's name. I want to know to avoid this crook.

[-E-]

Not to further beat the dead horse, Dan is correct. I now demand for current photos - any JPEG they send me I can check the code/timestamp (it will even tell me the camera that took the picture) - if I desire to be more sly or sense foul play.

Also - always via PayPal. Unless you are doing a personal pick-up/delivery.

However the key problem for you was waiting so long. There is an implied statute of limitations when it comes to these sorts of transactions - especially one of such dollar value, one of those "you snooze, oops" sort of scenarios.

[jdandy]

Paying by U.S. Postal Money Order offers another line of defense. If the seller is perpetrating a fraudulent deal and fails to return your money, he is in violation of Federal mail fraud laws for which he can be prosecuted.

[Dj_AmTraX]

Sorry to say that paying by wire transfer leaves you no chance of getting your money back from the bank. That is why all scams asks for funds by wire. You may be able to take the seller in small claims court up to $7K., but if seller is out of U.S., you are out of luck.

IMO, no matter how long he waited to open the box, it has nothing to do with what he got. He was dealing with a shady seller. Audiogon has no power to get your money back.

Your BEST line of defense is use a credit card, even when using Pay Pal. I hate that Pay Pal default to my bank account unless I change it. Pal Pal is shady too! They don't want to pay credit card fees.

[Rilands]

If the seller has such a high feedback(a high 100%) & you the buyer took three weeks to open the package, not knowing either of you I would side with the seller. That might not be right, but no one will ever know except for you & the seller.
Sorry........