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Revel Speakers The Science of Sound

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Old 09-30-2010, 08:49 PM
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Default Revel or Wilson?

Revel or Wilson?
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:12 PM
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Everything is in the eye of the credit-card-holder.

Again, back to the subjective argument.

Frankly, it's tough to go wrong with either choice - both freggin' rock.
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:10 AM
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Do you like to be told the truth or lied to?
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:19 AM
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this is exactly my current dilemma (at least until I listen to more speakers, then it'll be a quandry).

I agree with the results alluded to. Wilsons generally do not measure as well as they are perceived. Revels do, especially the ultima2 line. The salon2 is clearly an epic loudspeaker, with the flatest full range response curve I've seen in measurements in the 25kish price point The sasha is an improvement over the wp8 design, and it shows in measurements, but it's not flat.

Stereophile: Wilson Audio Sasha W/P loudspeaker
Stereophile: Revel Ultima Salon2 loudspeaker

now, these are not definitive measurements. They are done by one man, who also edits a magazine that sells advertisements---an uncalibrated microphone, a loose stand, a subway rumble can all color 'measurements'---and I'm sure you can think of many other spitefully subtle ways of manipulation if one has motivation.

that said, I have no reason to not believe those numbers, especially when they line up with the nrc's measurements.


now we come to the real deal: what's important. Flat response? Looks? Cachet? In a nutshell, this is my take on wilson sasha: beautiful loudspeaker, would visually integrate in my loft with ease, sound more than adequate, but in the end I might feel a bit had. You see, you can compare wilson to rolex. A decent product made by both, but those in the know don't respect rolex---it's what every tom dick and harry associates with luxury/status. They know the real deal lies with patek phillippe, iwc, or even a cheaper brand than rolex. Wilson, when you get past the fans, the looks, feels the same way. It might be a decent, even fine, even great product, but the fanbase is so off putting, the carefully crafted marketing and lifestyle so gag inducing, that one just might put that ugly as sin salon2 in their living room out of righteous indignation.



thanks for listening!
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesuvius View Post
Everything is in the eye of the credit-card-holder.

Again, back to the subjective argument.

Frankly, it's tough to go wrong with either choice - both freggin' rock.
sorry vesuvius, the article doesn't mention anything subjective, only objective.

that said, both do, indeed, rock. Which will you feel more comfortable buying is the real question. The self taught speaker maker, or the company employing a league of acoustical phds who literally wrote the book on speaker measurements and have the facility to back it up?
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the deep View Post
this is exactly my current dilemma (at least until I listen to more speakers, then it'll be a quandry).

I agree with the results alluded to. Wilsons generally do not measure as well as they are perceived. Revels do, especially the ultima2 line. The salon2 is clearly an epic loudspeaker, with the flatest full range response curve I've seen in measurements in the 25kish price point The sasha is an improvement over the wp8 design, and it shows in measurements, but it's not flat.

Stereophile: Wilson Audio Sasha W/P loudspeaker
Stereophile: Revel Ultima Salon2 loudspeaker

now, these are not definitive measurements. They are done by one man, who also edits a magazine that sells advertisements---an uncalibrated microphone, a loose stand, a subway rumble can all color 'measurements'---and I'm sure you can think of many other spitefully subtle ways of manipulation if one has motivation.

that said, I have no reason to not believe those numbers, especially when they line up with the nrc's measurements.


now we come to the real deal: what's important. Flat response? Looks? Cachet? In a nutshell, this is my take on wilson sasha: beautiful loudspeaker, would visually integrate in my loft with ease, sound more than adequate, but in the end I might feel a bit had. You see, you can compare wilson to rolex. A decent product made by both, but those in the know don't respect rolex---it's what every tom dick and harry associates with luxury/status. They know the real deal lies with patek phillippe, iwc, or even a cheaper brand than rolex. Wilson, when you get past the fans, the looks, feels the same way. It might be a decent, even fine, even great product, but the fanbase is so off putting, the carefully crafted marketing and lifestyle so gag inducing, that one just might put that ugly as sin salon2 in their living room out of righteous indignation.



thanks for listening!
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:14 AM
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"now we come to the real deal: what's important."

My opinion, in this order:

1. Low distortion, especially in the bass
2. Controlled directivity to give good coverage without including too much of the room.
3. Placement in the room.
4. Bandwidth and frequency response

I have not heard either speaker. But from everything I have seen online, I think that Wilson and their dealers do such a great job with number 3 that they overcome their measured bandwidth & frequency response "deficiencies". Plus, our ears are much more tolerant of frequency response deviations than we think, so I can understand their loyal following.

With that said, if you can get the first three things on my list along with flat response and bandwidth from 20hz to 20khz, it seems to me you have it all. At least on paper, Revel sure seems to have the potential to achieve that.
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Last edited by schaefer11; 10-01-2010 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the deep View Post
sorry vesuvius, the article doesn't mention anything subjective, only objective.

that said, both do, indeed, rock. Which will you feel more comfortable buying is the real question. The self taught speaker maker, or the company employing a league of acoustical phds who literally wrote the book on speaker measurements and have the facility to back it up?
Depends...do you want to a listen to a speaker that sounds good or one that measures well (and by this question I am not implying that the Revel does not sound good, rather I am simply pointing out that if it measures well does not necessaily translate into it sounding good)? In the 1970s, many amplifier designers used gobs of negative feedback because it lowered measured THD levels. Did those amplifiers sound good or did they measure well on THD ? Just because a piece of gear measures well, it does not mean it will meet a consumer's aesthetic tastes. And that is the rub in audio - the push-pull between science and art.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:51 PM
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Thank you, Cyril, for digging a little deeper.

From a purchaser's perspective - objectivity means nothing - even price. Just get into an argument with yourself (or sig other) about "well - THIS one that I like THAT much better is only THIS much more..." Justification is a subjective, emotional response.
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  #10  
Old 10-01-2010, 02:13 PM
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How a speaker measures has very little relevance to how it will actually sound in someone else's room due to obvious reasons... Wilson uses no less than 3 rooms of various acoustic properties including a room that has adjustable acoustical properties to arrive at a balance of sonic properties and qualities that may actually sound good in a typical room of the end user. All I can say is that I loved to measure my various speakers in my room and Sasha measured by far the flattest in my own room and sounded superb. They were also by far the easiest speaker to position in the room without loosing composure or causing bass problems and anomalies. No one talks about the various room/woofer to woofer induced suck-outs and humps of their own room when they purchase a speaker after reading the reviews when they are in fact a reality for everyone... A good manufacturer will strive for a balance of traits that results in a musical whole at the end user's room and I feel Wilson achieves that in spades.
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