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Revel Speakers The Science of Sound

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Old 03-11-2017, 05:29 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
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Default Salon3, definitely maybe.

I heard some rumors about Revel working on the next iteration of the Salons. The source is usually reliable but of course can't be named. Also, no details were given. I'm not sure my source had any as his area of focus is not related to the Luxury Audio Group.

Harman still claims the Salon2 stands up to all possible competition even given encroaching middle age. They say their Spinorama tests continue to favor listening impressions of the current line, even when compared to products costing multiples more. I won't argue since I love mine, but surely market pressures must be an issue for a product that hasn't been redesigned (or "reintroduced" as the case may be) in almost a decade.

I've been thinking about what the next series might improve in respect to current performance and I can only come up with a few notions as I have very few quibbles with my speakers.

1. Improved sensitivity. As we know, the current line has little tolerance for inadequate power in both quantity and quality.
2. Improved anchoring system. That is, something externally adjustable. The currently supplied spikes work but they are hard to adjust.
3. If Salons are going to have integrated covers, they should make allowances for banana plugs. I simply took the cable covers off the first day. I don't care one way or another, but they should tolerate various cable arrangements without compromising the feature itself.

That's about it from my perspective. These are the best domestic speakers I'v owned in 45 years taking my taste into account. I would perhaps selfishly prefer they keep everything as is. It's certainly not that they don't scratch my itch but as they mature, I'd imagine fewer are sold simply because they're not the latest and the ink is very very dry on the last reviews.

Now, an (imagined) feature set for the future, assuming the rumor is actually true.

Active amplification and in room response correction seem possible given Harman's preferences for that in the pro market. It would be a bold move in the market Revel swims in. We've discussed how most high end folks don't cotton to active speakers, but they're an obvious way to integrate and control for many variables. Room correction could be sold as an option (independent box, or plug in module) and that might be a way to keep cost down and eliminate an option for those who don't want it.

Harman (in the form of JBL) has a penchant for selling system approaches but rarely includes the electronics in the speakers themselves in the perfectionist market. That is, products like the M2 or Synthesis tend to be system engineered but the amps and processors are always outboard of the speakers. Just raw speculation.

What do you think?
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Last edited by Pampero; 03-12-2017 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:00 PM
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I think I need to go hug my Salon 2's and tell them, "Don't worry, everything will be all right".
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:43 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
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Just a rumor, but it came from within the sanctum. Mine are in no danger either. I got them for the duration.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:19 AM
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Well, my Studio 2's are of the same generation (middle age) but considering that I'm at the tail end of middle age (63) I don't see (or hear for that matter) any reason for the change
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Last edited by Mikado463; 03-15-2017 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:49 PM
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Agreed. At 57, unless a major cash infused event occurs, I will have to learn to live with my current speakers. Not a sacrifice at all!!
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Supporting System: McIntosh MX122 A/V Center; MC205 Amplifier; Bryston 14bSST2 Amplifier; PS Audio P10 Power Reconditioner; Revel Salon 2 Mains; Revel Voice 2 CC; JL Audio f113v2 (2); JL Audio CR-1 Crossover; Focal IC1002 Surrounds; Paradigm Studio Sub 15.
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Old 03-12-2017, 04:34 PM
tdimler tdimler is offline
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No doubt an improvement on the Salon 2's is somewhere in the pipeline, though I would expect for them to get through the new BE speakers in the Performa3 line first.

A couple interesting points you made, one regarding some type of integrated room correction. When I talked to Kevin Voecks at RMAF this year I asked him what he was working on and it was exactly this....some kind of room correction/equalization. He said he personally thinks it is very important but I was under the impression that he hasn't been able to convince Revel to make it a commercial reality. I tried to get an idea of what it might look like....a piece of hardware? Integrated into a speaker? Not sure what the answer is but he has it on his radar at least.

And yes.....some form of more stable and adjustable base would be a huge improvement. I lived with F208's for over two years and had them spiked on a laminate wood floor but they weren't even close to being stable. I recently swapped them for Salon2s which compounded the problem. I looked for a good aftermarket solution for my 208s but never came up with anything aside from the very good and VERY expensive Townshend Seismic Podiums. I took up the search again after getting the Salons with the same thing in mind and ended up with these very simple steel outriggers from a company up in the pacific northwest. They are affordable, sturdy, adjustable, and decent looking...something to consider if you are not happy with the stability of your Salons.
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Old 03-12-2017, 05:06 PM
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I may be an outlier, but I have not really had any problems with the stability of the Salon 2's. I have been using Stillpoints since I obtained the speakers and have been very happy with this. But, I have no small children around and the Invisible Fence keeps the dogs out of the living room.
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:59 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdimler View Post
No doubt an improvement on the Salon 2's is somewhere in the pipeline, though I would expect for them to get through the new BE speakers in the Performa3 line first.

A couple interesting points you made, one regarding some type of integrated room correction. When I talked to Kevin Voecks at RMAF this year I asked him what he was working on and it was exactly this....some kind of room correction/equalization. He said he personally thinks it is very important but I was under the impression that he hasn't been able to convince Revel to make it a commercial reality. I tried to get an idea of what it might look like....a piece of hardware? Integrated into a speaker? Not sure what the answer is but he has it on his radar at least.

And yes.....some form of more stable and adjustable base would be a huge improvement. I lived with F208's for over two years and had them spiked on a laminate wood floor but they weren't even close to being stable. I recently swapped them for Salon2s which compounded the problem. I looked for a good aftermarket solution for my 208s but never came up with anything aside from the very good and VERY expensive Townshend Seismic Podiums. I took up the search again after getting the Salons with the same thing in mind and ended up with these very simple steel outriggers from a company up in the pacific northwest. They are affordable, sturdy, adjustable, and decent looking...something to consider if you are not happy with the stability of your Salons.
I'm pretty familiar with (at least what used to be) Harman's product evolutions, timetables and procedures. Room correction started figuring prominently about 15 years ago when the first series of LSRs were introduced. At that time the procedure to accomplish the task was not really automated. In the pro world the first auto tune system was introduced in the EVO line. That product was buggy but they stuck with the concept, especially in later generations in the LSR theme.

Continued evolution of the idea was championed by Floyd Toole who also had a hand in the Ultima 2 projects if I recall. It doesn't take too much math to reckon any new speakers might have some combination of auto eq correction and (or) active multi way amplification. Given the complexities of Revel's four way designs and crossovers, it's hard to guess where else they'd turn to achieve more than incremental gains with the current product.

By the way, my problem isn't stability per se, although my thickly padded flooring presents some challenges (that I've come to ignore). My thought is that a base such as you described would be the ready solution and that would be easy enough to design in from the start. I'm not a fan of spending money on isolation feet or anchors or bases at this price point as it enters my personal "chasing the dragon" zone. Hi end equipment at this level should come complete as a full function product without requiring heroic measures (expense). That said, do you recall the name of the company that you got the bases from?

I know not everyone on this board agrees with me in this and gets great pleasure from investing many thousands in such things but I'm not of that mind as a rule.

Room treatment, well that's another story! Some things are verifiable. After all, I think that's a big reason why many of us bought Revels.
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Last edited by Pampero; 03-12-2017 at 07:05 PM.
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  #9  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:06 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtroo View Post
I may be an outlier, but I have not really had any problems with the stability of the Salon 2's. I have been using Stillpoints since I obtained the speakers and have been very happy with this. But, I have no small children around and the Invisible Fence keeps the dogs out of the living room.
No kids here either (anymore), and no knock intended on Stillpoints. I'd try them if the price to buy in wasn't what I paid for my amplifier by the time the thing is done. I'd like the ability to pull the spikes up and slide the speakers around and then reset the spikes without upending the things and leveling them at your pain. The current scheme doesn't let you do that as supplied.
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Last edited by Pampero; 03-12-2017 at 07:09 PM.
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  #10  
Old 03-14-2017, 09:19 AM
tdimler tdimler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pampero View Post
I'm pretty familiar with (at least what used to be) Harman's product evolutions, timetables and procedures. Room correction started figuring prominently about 15 years ago when the first series of LSRs were introduced. At that time the procedure to accomplish the task was not really automated. In the pro world the first auto tune system was introduced in the EVO line. That product was buggy but they stuck with the concept, especially in later generations in the LSR theme.

Continued evolution of the idea was championed by Floyd Toole who also had a hand in the Ultima 2 projects if I recall. It doesn't take too much math to reckon any new speakers might have some combination of auto eq correction and (or) active multi way amplification. Given the complexities of Revel's four way designs and crossovers, it's hard to guess where else they'd turn to achieve more than incremental gains with the current product.

By the way, my problem isn't stability per se, although my thickly padded flooring presents some challenges (that I've come to ignore). My thought is that a base such as you described would be the ready solution and that would be easy enough to design in from the start. I'm not a fan of spending money on isolation feet or anchors or bases at this price point as it enters my personal "chasing the dragon" zone. Hi end equipment at this level should come complete as a full function product without requiring heroic measures (expense). That said, do you recall the name of the company that you got the bases from?

I know not everyone on this board agrees with me in this and gets great pleasure from investing many thousands in such things but I'm not of that mind as a rule.

Room treatment, well that's another story! Some things are verifiable. After all, I think that's a big reason why many of us bought Revels.
I agree that equipment should be complete, and hope Revel will make the jump on their bases upon the next iteration. Their actual cost would be peanuts.

The bases I got were from http://www.soundocity.com They're going to be around $300 for a set. Very affordable IMO and did exactly what I needed.

There is always the Magico Mpod option...for $1050...per foot! I'm sure they are a superb piece of kit...but good grief.
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