New to Marantz - Looking for an AVP?

[70sMac]

Originally Posted by silversurfer6

Bill do you alreay have an amp for the rear channels?

Silver Surfer..... First, thanks for keeping an eye on this thread. We really want to start putting our new [modest] entertainment room together, but we don't have any money to waste. On top for the A/V items we've purchased during the past month or so, we've also purchased furniture for the room...so I trust that you understand how careful we're being about all of this.

If you look at our AAF signature, you will see that we have (2) "vintage" Mac receivers: the MAC4100 and the MAC4200. We presently use the MAC4200 to power our B&W N805 rears. We use the Mac MC300 to drive our N802 fronts and, quite frankly, we have always enjoyed this setup to listen to stereo music.

Needless to say, the Mac MX-130 is being used as a preamp for all four B&W speakers, but, just in case, I'll explain how. The MC300 receives a preamp signal via a direct (unbalanced) connection to the MX-130. The MAC4200, on the other hand, is receiving a signal that's being routed through the MX-130's "Record Processor." In short, the two B&W N805s are being powered by the MAC4200's amp section, but are also being delayed by the MX-130's HALL MODE circuitry. As simple as this may seem to those familiar with surround sound, the delay between the N802s and the N805s adds a nice facet to our music listening.

That is the full extent of our amplification. We do not have a separate amplifier for our new B&W HTM3s center speaker...and, as I understand things, we have no "real" surround amplification for our N805 rears...so, to the best of my understanding, we need a minimum of three (3) channels of amplification to realize the simple 5.1 surround system we have in our minds.

I hope that it fits in to the present discussion, somehow, but I want to clarify that someone on the AAF informed me that our MX-130 will not work as a 5.1 surround processor. Once again, from what I understand, the XLR outputs on our version of the MX-130 were replaced by a set of RCA jacks that allowed for surround sound? I will try to post two photos to this post. One shows our MX-130's Rear Panel (our S/N JM1397) and the other will show a different version of the MX-130 rear panel (S/N JM1457). If anyone has any knowledge about the difference(s) between the two versions, I would really love to read it.

ADDENDUM: I know it's hard to make out, but those (6) added RCA jacks I mentioned (on S/N JM1457) are labeled at the top as "6 CHANNEL INPUTS." The top two RCA jacks, from left to right, are labeled as "FL" and "FR." The two RCA jacks in the center are labeled, from left to right, as "CTR" and "SUB." The two RCA jacks on the bottom are labeled, from left to right, as "SUR L" and "SUR R." Sure seems to be related to 5.1 surround to me...

[70sMac]

Originally Posted by bart

Bill, the way I see it, you have all the speakers you need now.
You have some serious amps, but are missing amplification for the center channel.

I see a couple of options. From cheap to less cheap (that's what we're here for on AA )

- You keep you MX130 and find a second hand mono McIntosh amp for the center channel. You have a decent source (Oppo).
-You go for a second hand McIntosh 5-channel amp.
-You buy a new NAD M28.

Later, when funds permit, you can add a (very) decent processor that handles all formats, including DSD.
I don't know if the Marantz receivers decode DSD, but I'm sure a receiver will not be the best way to go.
You'd lose too much compared to your MX130.
When I upgraded from a top Pioneer receiver to our Marantz, the difference was not subtle.
I did some comparisons, and our AV8802A performed very nicely with stereo as well.

Bart..... If you go back to post 41, you'll see an explanation of our understanding of what we have, how we use it and, hopefully, how we may use what we have in the near future.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be indicating that we can use our Mac MX-130 as a 5.1 surround processor. As those earlier posts I just mentioned will explain, we were told, by an AAF member, that our version of the MX-130 cannot be used a 5.1 processor...but I won't repeat all of what I've already written (in said earlier post).

Okay, so what I do clearly understand is that you believe that, by going the A/V Receiver route, we would be losing our fine stereo music sound. Furthermore, you're clearly indicating that keeping the "separate component philosophy" will serve us much better (in the end). I couldn't agree with you more about that, but that's why we spend so much time typing here, right? Before I read your last post, I was thinking that there may be an A/V Receiver out there that can serve as our 5.1 surround processor and still deliver high-quality stereo sound. Now that I think about it, though, that's a LOT to ask of a single unit (an AV Receiver)...especially when one considers all of that integrated amplification circuitry.

[edward3132]

Bill

What most people do when they want a 5.1 surround sound system but continue to have a great 2 channel system is get a reasonable AV receiver or processor (if amps not needed) and connect its Left and Right channel outputs to an input on the 2 channel preamplifier and then the preamps outputs are connected to the respective L and R channel amps..

Many new 2 channel preamps have a feature known as processor bypass that does this by selecting the proper input and then sending the processed signal from the AV receiver/processor straight thru (bypass) that input to the amplifiers.

For me it is an Marantz AV7705 prepro with its L and R front channel outputs connected to my AR Ref 6 input #4 set to processor bypass which then is connected to my mono amps for L and R sound onto the speakers.

In your case you could in theory get a cost effective AV receiver, a Marantz AVR 50xx could do the trick and use the MX-130 as your pre-amp. You would use whichever input on the MX-130 you would like to pass thru the signal since the 130 does not have processor bypass. The only difference is that you would have to adjust the volume manually whenever watching surround material.

I have done this before by setting the volume level to a predetermined value and then use the AVR's menu to adjust the levels using a sound meter to balance all the surround outputs equally.

Seems complicated at times but not too bad if you can process how the signals move from component to component..

Edward

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by edward3132

What most people do when they want a 5.1 surround sound system but continue to have a great 2 channel system is get a reasonable AV receiver or processor (if amps not needed) and connect its Left and Right channel outputs to an input on the 2 channel preamplifier and then the preamps outputs are connected to the respective L and R channel amps..

Many new 2 channel preamps have a feature known as processor bypass that does this by selecting the proper input and then sending the processed signal from the AV receiver/processor straight thru (bypass) that input to the amplifiers.

That is one way and, perhaps, it is the most common. Another is to have two entirely independent systems which share only amps and speakers and to select between them with a line-level switch. For this, I use an 8channel (7.1) switch. Aside from this switch, each system operates as intended without any consideration or compromise from the other. If the AV side has more than 8 channels (e.g., Atmos, Auro-3D, etc.), those additional channels need not be switched since they are used only by one system anyway.

[70sMac]

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

That is one way and, perhaps, it is the most common. Another is to have two entirely independent systems which share only amps and speakers and to select between them with a line-level switch. For this, I use an 8channel (7.1) switch. Aside from this switch, each system operates as intended without any consideration or compromise from the other. If the AV side has more than 8 channels (e.g., Atmos, Auro-3D, etc.), those additional channels need not be switched since they are used only by one system anyway.

Kal..... I've been wondering about switching for quite some time now, but thought that it might be sacrilegious to ask about it here. Yes, if the switching won't have a negative impact on the transmission of the signal, I see no reason why one can't design the system to incorporate a [quality] switch. Reactance, be it inductive or capacitive, changes with frequency, but a decent switch shouldn't have much of an effect at audio frequencies. Thanks for bringing this subject to the discussion.

[Kal Rubinson]

It is, subjectively, transparent. with a well-designed passive switch, that is not surprising.

[70sMac]

Originally Posted by edward3132

Bill

What most people do when they want a 5.1 surround sound system but continue to have a great 2 channel system is get a reasonable AV receiver or processor (if amps not needed) and connect its Left and Right channel outputs to an input on the 2 channel preamplifier and then the preamps outputs are connected to the respective L and R channel amps..

Many new 2 channel preamps have a feature known as processor bypass that does this by selecting the proper input and then sending the processed signal from the AV receiver/processor straight thru (bypass) that input to the amplifiers.

For me it is an Marantz AV7705 prepro with its L and R front channel outputs connected to my AR Ref 6 input #4 set to processor bypass which then is connected to my mono amps for L and R sound onto the speakers.

In your case you could in theory get a cost effective AV receiver, a Marantz AVR 50xx could do the trick and use the MX-130 as your pre-amp. You would use whichever input on the MX-130 you would like to pass thru the signal since the 130 does not have processor bypass. The only difference is that you would have to adjust the volume manually whenever watching surround material.

I have done this before by setting the volume level to a predetermined value and then use the AVR's menu to adjust the levels using a sound meter to balance all the surround outputs equally.

Seems complicated at times but not too bad if you can process how the signals move from component to component...

Edward..... Please explain something to me...You wrote that an AV receiver or an AV processor, if you have all the amplification you need, can be connected via its Left and Right stereo outputs to an open input on a two-channel preamplifier. Next, the output of said two-channel preamp is connected to a stereo power amp (in the customary way).

Based on what I've read on the AAF and, subsequently, on the "internets," an AV processor has a preamp on board; hence, the term "pre-pro." Similarly, an AV receiver has an integrated amplifier built-in. I've never heard of running a preamp out to another preamp, as I assume is the case for the AV pre-pro setup you described...and I've also never heard of an integrated amp output being run to a preamp input, as per the AV receiver hookup you described. Now, I'm sure that I'm misunderstanding you here, so please feel free to take me to school.

Perhaps, if I can get my mind around the first point you made, I can continue on with the rest of your post with enough knowledge to be dangerous...

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by 70sMac

Based on what I've read on the AAF and, subsequently, on the "internets," an AV processor has a preamp on board; hence, the term "pre-pro." Similarly, an AV receiver has an integrated amplifier built-in. I've never heard of running a preamp out to another preamp, as I assume is the case for the AV pre-pro setup you described...and I've also never heard of an integrated amp output being run to a preamp input, as per the AV receiver hookup you described.

This is a common setup and there's no reason why one cannot pipe line level signals from one device to another. Line level is what you get from a DAC, disc player or preamp output and you know you can interconnect these, so no reason you cannot connect preamp to preamp.

[edward3132]

Originally Posted by 70sMac

Edward..... Similarly, an AV receiver has an integrated amplifier built-in. I've never heard of running a preamp out to another preamp, as I assume is the case for the AV pre-pro setup you described...and I've also never heard of an integrated amp output being run to a preamp input, as per the AV receiver hookup you described.

Further clarification. Using an integrated amp is a little trickier. You would actually use its preamp outputs to the other preamp not its speaker outputs thus bypassing the amplifiers. Most integrated amps have the preamp section connected to the amp section with a set of clamps (not sure of correct wording) If you remove the clamp you separate the preamp and amp sections thus allowing you to feed another preamp or a different set of amps.

Most modern AV receivers have 7.1 outputs that can feed another preamp or amp thus not using the ones in the receiver.

Hope this clarifies the issue..

Edward

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by edward3132

. Most integrated amps have the preamp section connected to the amp section with a set of clamps (not sure of correct wording).....................

The word is jumper or jumpers. Just interconnects, really.