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Old 03-26-2010, 03:33 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Default Cremona M's home.

Well, I am back in the Sonus Faber club for the next few months. My dealer dropped off the Cremona Ms this morning as a loaner pair.

Setup was rather painless, I know my room pretty well and after sliding the speakers around a bit to get a smooth bass response, they were positioned about a foot in from where the Wilson Sophia IIs and Sasha's sounded best. Once the bass response was as smooth as it was going to get, I played around with toe in to enhance the soundstage and focus. Once that was done, I spiked them to enhance the imaging and focus further as the spikes drain the cabinet vibrations.

I've heard these speakers before for a brief time but this is a well broken in pair and it was very evident as they sounded neither congested nor closed in like a new pair often sounds.

I let them play for a few hours while my Lamm amps woke up from their "vacation" and came up to temp and speed and then threw a few CDs at them that I am very familiar with and often use as a "reference".

Initial impressions: Enjoyable, musical speaker but.... I think I am forever spoiled by the two pair of Wilson speakers I've spent the last year with. The speaker sounds musical and enjoyable but that musicality comes at a price of a somewhat colored tonal balance. I am sensing a peak in the upper bass/lower mids making the male vocals sound a little fuller and warmer than what I would call neutral. The female vocals do not seem to suffer quite as much. Not really a surprise, I hear it with most SF speakers.

They don't plumb the bass depths the Sophia II and especially Sasha's were able to. The Cremona Ms give you a bit lumpier bass, a little less down low, a bit more up higher.... adding warmth to the male vocals whose voices fall in the bass/baritone region. Less noticeable with tenor, at least with the few CDs I threw at them so far.

Moving on up the mid/upper mids seem smooth if not slightly recessed, probably a little dip in that region? The female vocalists seem a bit further set back in the soundstage than what I am used to. The highs are smooth but lacking just a bit of air and sparkle.

Overall, the speaker is warmish and mellow sounding, very enjoyable, non-fatiguing but just a bit boring for my taste. I've also heard David's Cremonas, the non-M version a few times and the M's remind me of the non Ms quite a bit, so IMHO, the design change was more "evolutionary", not "revolutionary". There seems to be just a bit more midrange warmth and a bit more linearity in the highs. Hard to say for sure as David's room is different than mine as is our gear so take it FWIW.

Imaging is quite good with these floorstanders, the images are nicely laid out across the soundstage like they should be but in all honesty, they are not as focused as either pair of Wilsons were and they don't do "depth" of soundstage nearly as nice as Wilson speakers. Where Wilsons presented instruments with such three dimensionality where you felt you could get up and walk around the instruments on the stage, the Cremona Ms present them pretty much in the same 2 dimensional plane. I will play around with speaker positioning some more to see if I can improve that.

Having lived with two pairs of SF then two pairs of Wilsons and now back to SF, I have to admit, that elusive quality that I fell in love with Wilson speakers is what Dave Wilson calls "Dynamic Contrast". It is not "dynamic range" which is the ability to play the notes from lowest to highest levels on the recording with ease but the "rate of change" or "dynamic contrast" itself. It is the effortless rate of change, from the subtle shifts in playing style or the change of force or effort with which the string is plucked or the piano key is struck to the unexpected and eye flinching whack of the drum head, Wilson conveys the very essence of those dynamic range shifts or "contrast" with ease. Most speakers, these Cremona Ms included, just don't do it as well. Electrostatic and magneplanar guys can relate to this, I've had them myself except that they can hardly reproduce the "impact"/"force"/"effort" like Wilsons can. The Sophia IIs really impressed me with that elusive quality, it was the first time I heard a conventional speaker do that with such effortlessness and ease but with so much more "punch" and "realism". This is more than likely the explanation why some speakers sound a bit boring, slow and surypy. I understand what Dave Wilson is talking about much clearer now going back between the SF, Wilson and back to SF as well as thinking back to my Martin Logan days.

Overall, I would strongly prefer the Sophia II to the Cremona Ms and my dealer stated that he sells much less Cremonas to Sophia IIs now that he carries both.... I can certainly understand that and would have to agree, choosing between the two, I'd go for Sophia IIs unless of course one strongly prefers a more colored flavor and a less exciting speaker overall... To each its own of course. I will certainly enjoy my time with the Cremona Ms, they are easy to listen to and don't seem to do much wrong, they just can't do as much right as Wilsons but everyone has their preference and taste as well as different gear driving the speakers. If I had to stay in the SF range of speakers, I would try to come up with the difference for the Elipsa which elevate some of the parameters I discussed above to a higher level.

Some pics of the Cremona Ms and my music loving four legged friend.



Last edited by PHC1; 03-26-2010 at 03:47 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2010, 03:42 PM
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Serge.......Congratulations on securing a quality pair of loaner speakers to fill the interim.
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STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:45 PM
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Well at least you finally got your gear off the floor.








NOT!
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MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES
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MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:50 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlu View Post
Well at least you finally got your gear off the floor.








NOT!
Don't let the looks fool you, there are symposium fat padz under there. Having a rack on that wall really messed up the sound over the years I've had it and I find the floor with vibration isolation a much better alternative for the time being.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:01 PM
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Pictorial evolution of my system in the last few years. I am hoping to get settled in for a "long" time with the new room and Maxx 3s. I wonder if I am going to miss the gear coming in and out every 6 months or so... Probably but the madness has to stop.











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Old 03-26-2010, 04:04 PM
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Someone's got to mess with you!
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FLORIDA
MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES
CAPE COD

MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
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  #7  
Old 03-26-2010, 04:05 PM
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Hey! There's my speaker.

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STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:17 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlu View Post
Someone's got to mess with you!
Messer does the messing around here.

Last edited by PHC1; 03-26-2010 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
Hey! There's my speaker.

I've got to say it did look damn good in my room room and it also looks great in yours.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
I've got to say it did look damn good in my room room and it also looks great in yours.
Serge.......Looks, and sounds great in my room. I listen to the SF Guarneri Momento's a few hours or more every single day.
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STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A
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