McIntosh MEN220 Review

[EVOLVIST]

Originally Posted by jdandy

You can still use the processor loop on your C2300 preamplifier as long as the MEN220 is installed between the preamplifier outputs and the amplifier inputs. Anything used in the processor loop will still be influenced by the Room Perfect equalizer settings.

Alright, my first post, so now I can officially get my feet wet with a stupid question.

Okay, my pre-amp has only left and right outputs, but I love my pre-amp (which is really a part of my DAC), but I would also like to use this room correction. I guess I can't do it, huh? Well, let me also say that my pre-amp has XLR outputs, too. Still, I guess the only way to use a processor loop would be some sort of switch-box, but those typically add a good amount of distortion, though I wonder if distortion would matter since your only using a loop for the room correction, which should be a pretty passive signal. Or, am I looking at this upside down and sideways?

I'm probably way out of my league here. I'm simply trying to figure out how to use this tech in the best way, since I really need room correction, my current pre-amp is so pure (Chord DAVE), the Lyngdorf stuff, by itself, is Class D, and I would rather not use standalone software for room correction. Uggh...

[Masterlu]

EVOLVIST... Welcome to AA!

[jdandy]

EVOLVIST.......Welcome to Audio Aficionado.

You can install the MEN220 between your analog output of the Chord Dave and your amplifier inputs. The McIntosh MEN220 can work in a processor loop or in the preamp output to your amps. In the Setup Menu of the MEN220 you select how it is installed.

[substance]

Originally Posted by EVOLVIST

Alright, my first post, so now I can officially get my feet wet with a stupid question.

Okay, my pre-amp has only left and right outputs, but I love my pre-amp (which is really a part of my DAC), but I would also like to use this room correction. I guess I can't do it, huh? Well, let me also say that my pre-amp has XLR outputs, too. Still, I guess the only way to use a processor loop would be some sort of switch-box, but those typically add a good amount of distortion, though I wonder if distortion would matter since your only using a loop for the room correction, which should be a pretty passive signal. Or, am I looking at this upside down and sideways?

I'm probably way out of my league here. I'm simply trying to figure out how to use this tech in the best way, since I really need room correction, my current pre-amp is so pure (Chord DAVE), the Lyngdorf stuff, by itself, is Class D, and I would rather not use standalone software for room correction. Uggh...

From your post, I understand you want to take advantage of the dacs in your pre-amp. Since men220 re-digitizes the signal for processing, it renders any prior dac in the loop less effective.

Men220 appears to be a near clone of an earlier accuphase product. What differs them that is the accuphase version has a digital in/out loop connections which keeps the signal in the digital domain before your good dac at the end. Its a shame mcintosh didn't implement this beautiful feature.

Now your options that make most sense are:

Forget room correction on the upper octaves and focus on only the bass. Get a pair of subwoofers(one for each main) that has built in room correction. Such as Martin logan bf210 and jl audio version 2. These also digitize the signal however only in the very low octave where accuracy over fidelity matters more. Since these are fully automated in calibration, the lowest octave will be perfectly normalized. The trick will be mating the upper octaves from your mains to the these sub. But this is the fun part. Get a desibelmeter and rew on your computer. Once you seemlessly integrate them, they should play like one large pair speakers. If you have major issues on the upper octaves, this is easier to address with room treatment. Higher frequencies have much less significant energy comparing to single digit hertz. It is much easier to tame them with accustic dampening materials. Most case you only need to cover the first reflection points. This way you are altering very little of the analog nature of your setup and avoiding multiple conversions which each will effect the soul of the sound.

Another option may sound unorthodox to many but use an mx150/151 as your pre amp. This unit shares the same guts with men220 but it is 8ch. It actually has better dac chips used than men220. The benefit of this unit is that it has digital inputs. You can feed your digital sources and it will process room correct in the digital domain only to be converted back to analog at the end.

[EVOLVIST]

Originally Posted by jdandy

EVOLVIST.......Welcome to Audio Aficionado.

You can install the MEN220 between your analog output of the Chord Dave and your amplifier inputs. The McIntosh MEN220 can work in a processor loop or in the preamp output to your amps. In the Setup Menu of the MEN220 you select how it is installed.

Originally Posted by substance

From your post, I understand you want to take advantage of the dacs in your pre-amp. Since men220 re-digitizes the signal for processing, it renders any prior dac in the loop less effective.

Men220 appears to be a near clone of an earlier accuphase product. What differs them that is the accuphase version has a digital in/out loop connections which keeps the signal in the digital domain before your good dac at the end. Its a shame mcintosh didn't implement this beautiful feature.

Now your options that make most sense are:

Forget room correction on the upper octaves and focus on only the bass. Get a pair of subwoofers(one for each main) that has built in room correction. Such as Martin logan bf210 and jl audio version 2. These also digitize the signal however only in the very low octave where accuracy over fidelity matters more. Since these are fully automated in calibration, the lowest octave will be perfectly normalized. The trick will be mating the upper octaves from your mains to the these sub. But this is the fun part. Get a desibelmeter and rew on your computer. Once you seemlessly integrate them, they should play like one large pair speakers. If you have major issues on the upper octaves, this is easier to address with room treatment. Higher frequencies have much less significant energy comparing to single digit hertz. It is much easier to tame them with accustic dampening materials. Most case you only need to cover the first reflection points. This way you are altering very little of the analog nature of your setup and avoiding multiple conversions which each will effect the soul of the sound.

Another option may sound unorthodox to many but use an mx150/151 as your pre amp. This unit shares the same guts with men220 but it is 8ch. It actually has better dac chips used than men220. The benefit of this unit is that it has digital inputs. You can feed your digital sources and it will process room correct in the digital domain only to be converted back to analog at the end.

Thank you guys for the warm welcome.

Jdandy - I don't quite understand. Are you saying that I could use the MEN220 with my DAVE's unmodified signal just by going out of the DAVE's RCAs into some sort of pass-through in the MEN220?

Substance...Yeah, I really don't want to use software. I don't know. I suppose that would be a last option.

Now, you mention Accuphase, but yesterday I purchased a Lyngdorf RP-1 for pretty cheap. Now, I'm gathering from what you're saying is that it's really going to mess up my DAVE's signature by re-digitizing the sound? Yikes! I mean, I know it's digital processor, but the specs made it sound like it was/in nearly a pass-through scenario...or maybe I totally misread it.

I hope I didn't just buy a paperweight. Hahaha!

[EVOLVIST]

Originally Posted by substance

Another option may sound unorthodox to many but use an mx150/151 as your pre amp. This unit shares the same guts with men220 but it is 8ch. It actually has better dac chips used than men220. The benefit of this unit is that it has digital inputs. You can feed your digital sources and it will process room correct in the digital domain only to be converted back to analog at the end.

Well, this unit is curious - and please forgive my almost total ignorance here, because again, I'm reading, but I'm in uncharted waters, as a complete non-techy (I'm a writer by trade). I hope this isn't too much OT, but maybe not since this A/V control center shares similarities with the men220.

So, with all of these I/Os, could this be run before my DAC, using room correction and such? In other words: Streaming Source with music - > MX151 -> Chord DAVE - > amp - > Speakers.

This way, if the sound coming out of the MX-151 is agreeable to me, it doesn't matter to me what sort of processing/conversion happens before my DAC, as long as I can get the purest signal I can from my DAC/Pre-amp.

Does this make sense? (Or maybe the non-response to my last post is an indication of no-time-for-dummys. Haha! )

[substance]

Accuphase unit works only with matching accuphase pre amp and dac. Digital input output loop uses proprietary connectors. They are also out of production by few years. You would have to seek in the second hand market. They are vastly superior to mcintosh in both room perfect and dac implementation.

If you go with the 151 route, it would take over your men220, pre amp and dac. There would be no room for Dave. You would feed all your digital sources into mx151 via digital coax, optical or xlr aes digital. Mx151 would internally apply room correction. Then it would convert back to analog with its 24/192khz dacs and apply volume control in analog domain(which is good). If you use it in stereo mode, it won't do any other processing. Mx151 in stereo mode vs men220 should be identical except that mx151 keeps the signal in digital domain and uses better dacs at the end(this means it's actually better than men220)

Mx150/151 in the second hand market are dirt cheap. The cost should be the same as a brand new men220 or less. As a bonus you get a second zone and hdmi inputs. You can feed an sacd player with an hdmi output (such as mvp881,891,901 or an oppo) and have it feed pure digital signal into mx151.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I don't mind answering them to my best knowledge. I have a degree in ece and 20 year experience in home audio.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by EVOLVIST

Thank you guys for the warm welcome.

Jdandy - I don't quite understand. Are you saying that I could use the MEN220 with my DAVE's unmodified signal just by going out of the DAVE's RCAs into some sort of pass-through in the MEN220?

EVOLVIST.......I am making the assumption you are driving your power amplifier directly from either the balanced or RCA analog outputs. If that is the case, reroute the left and right balanced or RCA outputs from the Chord DAVE that go to your power amp, plug them into the MEN220, then add another pair of balanced or RCA interconnects from the MEN220 analog left and right outputs and plug them into your power amp. In this manner the MEN220 will be in the signal path between your Chord DAVE preamp outputs and the amplifier inputs. That is the typical way the MEN220 is installed in a system.

[EVOLVIST]

Originally Posted by jdandy

EVOLVIST.......I am making the assumption you are driving your power amplifier directly from either the balanced or RCA analog outputs. If that is the case, reroute the left and right balanced or RCA outputs from the Chord DAVE that go to your power amp, plug them into the MEN220, then add another pair of balanced or RCA interconnects from the MEN220 analog left and right outputs and plug them into your power amp. In this manner the MEN220 will be in the signal path between your Chord DAVE preamp outputs and the amplifier inputs. That is the typical way the MEN220 is installed in a system.

Right. I get that part. I just am unsure of where the process loop part came in. So, basically, in your scenario, I would be using the MEN220 as a pre-amp, leaving my DAVE with a fixed signal, in DAC mode only. Yet, essentially, the MEN220 does an additional ADC to analog conversion after the DAVE, which wouldn't seem optimal. This makes me think that yeah, I'm barking up the wrong tree. Shuck. I thought I might be on to something.

[EVOLVIST]

Originally Posted by substance

If you go with the 151 route, it would take over your men220, pre amp and dac. There would be no room for Dave.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I don't mind answering them to my best knowledge. I have a degree in ece and 20 year experience in home audio.

This is a super good post and very thoughtful. I'm just not sure I'm ready to part from the DAVE as my DAC.

McIntosh is a mixed bag for me. I've heard really great units, and not so great units, depending on what they are. I mostly like the McIntosh amps (except for the headphone amp of theirs).