New MA252 Integrated Amp

[JBT]

Best Of Both Worlds MA252



https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/...ted-amplifier/

[ruffoc]

I'd still really like to learn a little more about the technology in the MA252. The Pre amp tube complement (2 x 12AX7 2x 12AT7) appears different than any other MC preamp. No dealer I've spoken with can tell me accurately if the Phono section is tube or solid state. Whether the tone control circut passes through the tubes. It would also be nice to learn a little more about the output stage -- this unit appears to have a massive R-Core transformer. is this similar to any other Mc Amp? New?

Clearly a lot of thought and engineering went into this Unit. Back in the day when I joined this forum, Ron-C would post. Wondering if he can shed any light.

[afridi]

So I had a Yaqin MC 13 I had ordered way before I got my 252. The 252 sounded good in my secondary system. The Yaqin arrived once I had the 252 on for a few weeks.

I swapped in the Yaqin and ran it for a few weeks. Then replaced it back with the 252.

Final thoughts. The 252 is good but is beaten by the $600 Yaqin. In comparison it sounds flat, hard and 2 dimensional. In fact it became unlistenable on Robert Plants "Carry Fire" album played from a hi-rez file.

So in the end my take is that while the Chinese amp's longevity is in question, it sounds way better to my ears than the 252 which appears built like a tank. I think the McIntosh is a great entry point for people wanting to step into the McIntosh world (Ive owned original MC40s and a couple of their power amps plus the C47 pre and media player in the past).

The Chinese, catering for the East Asian market including Japan, can and do produce some interesting stuff. Quality control/longevity is an open question for sure.

I boxed up and sold the 252. I plan to try something else instead. Maybe Prima Luna. In the meantime the Yaqin is holding its own.

[PeterMusic]

Thanks afridi and JBT--I've been on the edge of my seat for listening impressions

[ruffoc]

I heard the MA252 the other day at a local dealer in a modest system consisting of Totem Rainmaker speakers, a sonos digital source a Rega turntable with a Ortofon blue cartridge.

The environment was noisy so it was hard to come definitive conclusions. In my opinion, the MA252 looks better in person than it does in photos and sounds as good as it looks. Sounds very much like a McIntosh - warm, big full sound. Power output seems useful but I did notice some strain / hardening of the sound as the unit approached (what I thought was unity gain). I didn't drive it into clipping. Phono stage was good, I found it a wee bit on the bright side for my taste but I don't want to be critical as the turntable setup wasn't optimal.

Ergonomics are first rate -- all the Mc Pre features are there: source trimming, tone controls, balance, renaming of sources and the volume control tracking is just supurb. Would have liked to see a mono mode however.

Regarding the pre amp mode: the dealer noted the 12AT7 was for gain and the 12AX7 was the output buffer (don't quote me as I may have this reversed). Phono according to the dealer is solid state.

The MA252 is a nice size too, about 16 in deep so it will fit on a normal sized shelf or work well in domestic environment.

What's missing (apart from more inputs and a pre out) is the limited power output. The MA252 felt a little strained during very loud passage even though it wasn't actually clipping. The unit simply doesn't have the drive of the larger Mc power amps -- that feeling of ease that a huge power reserve provides during large orchestral crescendos (even the lower powered Mc275 has this feeling). BUT note that I was listening in a very large open area. In a smaller domestic environment I suspect it will perform well with all but the most dynamic music.

It looks like the product team put a lot of thought and engineering into this product. Looks great, sounds wonderful and the features are very useful. From a product marketing perspective, I think this is a winner -- it will bring new people to the brand and I doubt it will cannibalize Mc sales of bigger units - I suspect current Mc owners would buy for a second system.

I hope members find my comments useful

[Berman002]

Originally Posted by afridi

So I had a Yaqin MC 13 I had ordered way before I got my 252. The 252 sounded good in my secondary system. The Yaqin arrived once I had the 252 on for a few weeks.

I swapped in the Yaqin and ran it for a few weeks. Then replaced it back with the 252.

Final thoughts. The 252 is good but is beaten by the $600 Yaqin. In comparison it sounds flat, hard and 2 dimensional. In fact it became unlistenable on Robert Plants "Carry Fire" album played from a hi-rez file.

So in the end my take is that while the Chinese amp's longevity is in question, it sounds way better to my ears than the 252 which appears built like a tank. I think the McIntosh is a great entry point for people wanting to step into the McIntosh world (Ive owned original MC40s and a couple of their power amps plus the C47 pre and media player in the past).

The Chinese, catering for the East Asian market including Japan, can and do produce some interesting stuff. Quality control/longevity is an open question for sure.

I boxed up and sold the 252. I plan to try something else instead. Maybe Prima Luna. In the meantime the Yaqin is holding its own.

Interesting, I would like to see how the PrimaLuna compares to MA252 and Yaqin.

[ejr1953]

Originally Posted by afridi

Am wondering if McIntosh's are worth having their tubes swapped out. I have a bunch of CV4024s lying around and may give that a go. CV4004s are expensive and seems like would make a good match to the CV4024.

Anyone here with experience tube rolling McIntoshs?

I purchased a then new C2500 tube preamp, and while breaking it in, researched and purchased a matched set of Genalex Gold Lion's. As soon as I swapped the tubes, I noticed more "musicality" to acoustic sounds (piano, guitar, violin, voices, etc.) I feel the change was well worth the time, trouble and expense.

[afridi]

Originally Posted by PeterMusic

Thanks afridi and JBT--I've been on the edge of my seat for listening impressions

I received my Prima Luna today. I feel silly posting this on the Mac forums, but its an honest appraisal and my views which certainly are subjective at best.

As posted earlier, the 252 sounded lovely. Compared to other integrateds I played with in my secondary system, it was good. It looked fantastic, would last a lifetime and tube rolling while making a difference was minimal at best.

A Yaqin, budget EL34 amp sounded better to my ears. It was smoother, less clinical and dry, and Robert Plants, album "Carry fire" was listenable and not tiring to listen to.

I sold the 252 and replaced it with the identically priced Prima luna integrated amp.

Boy was this this leagues better than the Yaqin. Full in the room images, with tonal balance, bass extension and effortless in presentation. There are details and nothing draws attention. You listen to the performance and our mind just flows with what's playing.

One could argue hey they are not comparable: Hybrid vs full tube amps. I have cobbled up Hybrid systems in the past (Cary SLP 05 plus Mcintosh MC252) they had the magic that the MA252 doesn't.

While the PrimaLuna is rated 45 watts or so compared to the Macs 252 100watts per channel, the PL sounds louder and easier to fill the room on my Focal book shelves plus Sumiko sub.

I can see why one would purchase a 252 vs the Chinese yaqin more so for longevity, reliability, but I do believe the PL will be a solid long term investment and sound way better to boot. its also tweek-able: Ultra linear or triode, plus can be voiced if one wants to tube roll or have more power by throwing in KT88s, KT120s or even KT150s and flicking a switch.

A final thought: If he 252 had the Mac transformers, that Mac are famous for, I do believe it would have made a big difference. Maybe if the power amp was class A, it may have helped. Its a great little amp, but not something that will go down in history like some of the famous pieces that were produced in the past. I miss my old MC 40 monoblocks that I owned for over a decade in the past.

[ruffoc]

Have you considered that what you enjoy about the Prima luna is the addition of second order harmonic distortion? I expect the amp stage of the MA252 is far more linear

[afridi]

I did think that, but honestly, I think its more accurate. I really think the weak link in the Mac is the transformers. An auto-tranny would have helped.

When I listen to say audio files gradually increasing the bit and depth rate (recordings I experimented with) you can hear an increase in body, separation and air as the recordings get better. The reverse is true as one downsamples.

Well measuring lower priced SS amps sound thinner, and harsher than more expensive ones with better circuits, beefier power supplies etc.

The sound I hear from the PL doesn't sound so much as 2nd harmonics (as maybe what makes a Dynaco ST 70 sound so pleasant although its limited than better built amps) in as much as its overbuilt. I think for anyone buying the 252, ,an audition of the PL is worth it as a comparison.

One way I sometimes listen to a piece of equipment, is to stand in an adjoining room, or out of sight of whats playing. I used to do that at audio club meetings in the old day. Usually the better equipment made me more likely to believe I was hearing a real human and real instruments than the other equipment that sounded more like Hi-Fi.