McIntosh Mc1.25kW vs Dan D'Agostino Progression Monoblock amplifiers

[Charles]

Serge, "magic" is what makes the world go round. Literally and sincerely. Humans understand nothing fundamentally. Wouldn't you like to have a slice of it? I would.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Charles

I've always found it amusing that if you ask Mac, the party line is that all their gear sounds identical.

In reality it is very difficult to even tell tubes from solid state. I’ve often compared the 275 to the 501’s. Yes, I heard a difference, had to do with the interaction of the 275 with speakers vs the much more muscular 501’s.

All things being equal, with both amps feeling comfortable, well, that’s when imagination takes over. All those glowing magic bottles.. they are sexy and sweeet!

I can’t tell you how many times I asked my audiophile friends to tell me if they are listening to tubes or solid state headphone amps with familiar to them recordings being blind to the fact. No can do... I would be guessing myself at best with the good quality amps comfortable driving those headphones.

We tend to hear with our eyes.... need to see what’s making that music and the creative imagination takes over.

You said Mac... That by which the engineers measure their products and within the operational envelope, it should sound the same. It doesn’t for obvious reasons with amps. Try to tell a difference between preamps... Only if you are a really experienced listener and realize the harmonic bloom and a subtle increase in soundstage dimensionality is taking place. Sure it’s not a recording?

We are very good with spatial information. I can remember very well the soundstage and all the spatial information. Depth, width, height..

Tonal qualities? I don’t have pitch perfect hearing. Do you? Do all the audiophiles? Why do blindfolded professional violin players confuse the coveted “master of tone”, the $7 million Stradivarius to a modern violin while claiming nothing sounds better than a Stradivarius?

But tubes really do sound different? No?

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Charles

Serge, "magic" is what makes the world go round. Literally and sincerely. Humans understand nothing fundamentally. Wouldn't you like to have a slice of it? I would.

Here we are in perfect agreement Charles.

Illusion is what our reality really is according to science itself. How sweet it is then when you align and focus your illusions on the positive, the whole world chances like magic!

Music is one of the most potent magic potions there is.

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by Charles

Is it your opinion that the Momentum is superior to the Progression?

Best

Charles

Yes, having heard both....

[PHC1]

By the way, at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, my own cable definitely make a difference since they have a network... All the upper end hash and grunge is filtered out but this is a more or less an active approach.

Cables with very unusual specs such as high capacitance can and do have an effect on sound. This article was actually very good if anyone cares to read it. It has to do with sensitive microphone cables, you know, those things that actually capture the music we then listen to on our systems?

There is also an answer in there why I prefer to use cables with networks designed to address a specific potential problem.

http://audiosystemsgroup.com/CableCapacitance.pdf

[PHC1]

Have not lived with Progression or the MC1.25 but have lived with the MC501s and Momentum monoblocks. Very different amps indeed. But truth be told, in the context of a "very enjoyable" and "musical" system and appropriate synergy, the 501s were just as satisfying albeit at very different price range and caliber.

To me it has never been about chasing some lofty goals or about feeding an ego. It was about exploring to see how much more satisfaction can be derived from music. Were the Momentum monos and Wilson Alexia satisfying at that point in my audiophile life? Absolutely! But so were the 501s and Sonus Faber before them and much lesser systems before that.

I have to say at this point that the price and caliber of our toys has little to do with long term satisfaction. Music can be enjoyed on virtually any system that makes music sound like music. The mood has to be right is all.

When the mood is right and I am in the groove, even a pair of my favorite headphones fed by tubes is out of this world satisfying and all is right in this world.

[Grasshopper]

Cool video.

I'd like to find my "final" amps without breaking the bank too badly.

No rush, but perhaps in 2021 would be cool.

My wallet wants to lean towards a pre-owned pair of the MC1.2KW - so I appreciated this video.

I did hear sonus faber paired with a D'agostino integrated, and it was quite good too (Instruments were instruments, if that make sense).

I'd be thrilled if I preferred the MC1.2KW - - - I do lean towards warm, romantic sound.

On a side note measurements don't matter that much to me because I'll be the first to admit that I prefer a "colored" sound. The same reasons I prefer a movie that sweeps me away to another place (over a perfectly factual documentary) is the reason I prefer to be transported by the music, but am not overly concerned with 100% accuracy.

Originally Posted by PHC1

Interesting video with impressions on MC1.25KWs vs D'Agostino Progression monos.

Once again it goes to show that experienced listeners will always have a preference, value certain characteristics and traits over others and simply hear differently.

I've experienced both McIntosh and D'Agostino in my own systems over the years, so I can relate to certain comments made in the video since the "house sound" will typically persist from one generation of products to the next if the designers stick to certain concepts and build philosophies. But this is not about my preference or opinions.

Interesting video because you don't often get a chance to hear an honest and objective opinion since the camp is usually very split either "for" or "against" McIntosh with the stigmas, stereotypes and prejudice.

https://youtu.be/td54mT0bGo4

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Cool video.

I'd like to find my "final" amps without breaking the bank too badly.

No rush, but perhaps in 2021 would be cool.

My wallet wants to lean towards a pre-owned pair of the MC1.2KW - so I appreciated this video.

I did hear sonus faber paired with a D'agostino integrated, and it was quite good too (Instruments were instruments, if that make sense).

I'd be thrilled if I preferred the MC1.2KW - - - I do lean towards warm, romantic sound.

On a side note measurements don't matter that much to me because I'll be the first to admit that I prefer a "colored" sound. The same reasons I prefer a movie that sweeps me away to another place (over a perfectly factual documentary) is the reason I prefer to be transported by the music, but am not overly concerned with 100% accuracy.

We are definitely on the same page here. I have completely changed my mind about chasing accuracy for sake of accuracy. Music is not about accuracy, it is about an emotional connection. That is very difficult to put into words or appropriate audiophile adjectives. Seek not a system for its price, features, coveted status or hyperboles... Seek it for that musical connection, "speaker to soul"... That is the secret to any great system.

If it is not, then I really don't understand this hobby at all... Anything is possible.

[Grasshopper]

Very well said!!!

Originally Posted by PHC1

We are definitely on the same page here. I have completely changed my mind about chasing accuracy for sake of accuracy. Music is not about accuracy, it is about an emotional connection. That is very difficult to put into words or appropriate audiophile adjectives. Seek not a system for its price, features, coveted status or hyperboles... Seek it for that musical connection, "speaker to soul"... That is the secret to any great system.

If it is not, then I really don't understand this hobby at all... Anything is possible.

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by PHC1

By the way, at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, my own cable definitely make a difference since they have a network... All the upper end hash and grunge is filtered out but this is a more or less an active approach.

Cables with very unusual specs such as high capacitance can and do have an effect on sound. This article was actually very good if anyone cares to read it. It has to do with sensitive microphone cables, you know, those things that actually capture the music we then listen to on our systems?

There is also an answer in there why I prefer to use cables with networks designed to address a specific potential problem.

http://audiosystemsgroup.com/CableCapacitance.pdf

Great article!