Wilson versus Vivid Audio and Magico

[JoeN]

Originally Posted by Charles

JoeN, I'm sorry you are having surgery and I hope it is successful. Thank you for the congrats. I'll go backwards. What you are basically saying is that Magico doesn't have a Flagship. One of the real problems I have with some certainly not the majority of Magico owners is their smugness. Every speaker is a "Flagship". Really! Thankfully, no other speaker manufacturer claims this and I don't think Magico would either.

I agree with you on the it being "how it plays".

Boomy bass, Wilson? This doesn't even deserve an answer except to highlight your smugness. For the record, Wilsons don't have "boomy bass".

I'll stand by what I said concerning cabinet materials. You protest too much and you demand too much. Wilson has more advanced cabinet materials with their composites than an aluminium/carbon fiber cabinet. There is no modularity and a one piece cabinet creates a furniture resonance. The larger the cabinet the more difficult it is to mitigate.

As for installation, I'm sure you can see it is standard isosceles triangle routine used by many manufacturers. Toe it in a little, if that's too bright, toe it out a little and so on. Frankly it's not going to make any difference whether you use a laser because forming an absolutely exact isosceles triangle will make zero difference and again points out the inherent flaw in the Magico design compared to Wilson. What makes a huge difference is always being able to listen on axis tweeter to ear and time aligned for any distance and ear height. Notice the absence of the word "isosceles". It doesn't enter in to the Wilson equation. That's what sold me on Wilson. With Magico if the tweeter is pointed at the ear it may sound too bright, so toe it out. How much? That's the 64 dollar question. If it's too dull toe it in, but how much? Ans: till it sounds good but suppose it doesn't sound so "good" tomorrow? With Wilson you get a standard sound and to my ears the sound is good and I love on axis listening. Any manufacturer is going to tell you to begin with an isosceles but what you wind up with may be far different and you have no idea how the speaker is really supposed to sound.

Perhaps some don't understand that with Wilsons, you can choose where you want/need/must to sit in relation to your speakers and "dial in" the speaker and achieve the best Wilson sound for that sitting position. It may not be the absolute best Wilson sound but it will be the best the Wilson speaker can achieve given the limitations of the room. Folks like Michael Fremer of Stereophile must sit 8' from the speaker. His Alexx will deliver an on axis time aligned sound adjusted for distance and his ear height. That is amazing.

I will stand by my statement that Wilson has surpassed Magico in all areas with the possible exception of drivers.

Thanks for your reply. The first eye surgery went well, I’ll have the second in a few hours. So, no eyes pretty soon - at least for a few days or weeks, whatever ..,

My wife read your reply to me. Surprise, surprise, you began by twisting, turning, and torturing my words. I stated that all Magicos were flagship speakers, but you wrote, “What you are basically saying is that Magico doesn't have a Flagship.” That’s kind of the exact opposite of what I wrote isn’t Charles. At least now when you write highly of Wilson speakers I now know how interpret and understand your words ...

One day when you sit down and actually listen to a Magico you’ll understand why I wrote what I wrote. Indeed, every Magico is a flagship! This doesn’t mean they are for everybody. I still believe there are numerous other good speakers in production - including Wilson (but I’m now doubting their cabinet construction ...).

Since you and others can’t answer the Wilson Alphabet cabinet question, perhaps you can answer a question on what some consider the weakest part of a Wilson speaker - it’s drivers! Does Wilson still use a cheap ferrite magnet in some of its speakers? Where does Wilson source the drivers for their speakers at? Where are yours sourced at? Do you know their maker and model? Charles, have you ever examined a Magico driver and a Wilson driver against one another?

Happy New Year Charles. I hope your new speaker install is going very well. Needless to say I’ll have to look at your pics and your reply later.

[cdobson]

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

Have you confused me with someone else? Do read back a couple of my “one liners” to see if I indeed claimed “Wilson is disreputable” in anyway shape or form.

Normally I try not to engage in X speaker manufacturer vs. Y speaker manufacturer debate as it never seems to be useful or helpful and no one is ever going to change anyone’s mind. And also because I feel very comfortable with my choice using my ears. But I did in this thread (maybe I shouldn’t have..given I have to get involved further with this reply) because the “smugness” displayed by you is out of ordinary.

I’m glad that you are able to afford $300k and you’re close to acquiring your dream of owning a “true reference level” speaker (as you claimed of XVX). I always find taking delivery of new speakers are most exciting time. But “the problem I have with you” is just because you spent $300k and have read some technical papers (intertwined with marketing messages), you feel you’ve figured out all there is regarding loudspeaker design and entitled to diss other speaker manufacturer for no apparent reason. The way you did is even more astonishing - somehow you brought in YG to the conversation and conveniently stated not only Wilson, but YG is quite easily better than Magico because they also use aluminum. And from what you wrote, I find no proof that you have had either YG or Magico in you room.

Ok, now below link is for your request for thoughtful rebuttal on Magico enclosure, drivers and phase/time alignment philosophy. Unlike you, I don’t claim to even remotely understand high end loudspeaker design, so I will just quote none other than Magico boss Alon Wolf. Hope you enjoy it, especially phase/time alignment part.

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/art...for-alon-wolf/

Wow - some clearly stated opinions from Magico’s boss...though I must say I enjoy my Wilson’s nonetheless. :-)

[marsalis]

In regards to time/phase coherent loudspeakers, none of the speakers involved here subscribe to the established definition of what time/phase coherent loudspeaker is. All three loudspeakers have a conventional step response, although some exhibit better time/phase behavior than others (at least their drivers are connected in positive acoustic polarity).

More information on time/phase coherent loudspeakers from JA: https://www.stereophile.com/features/100/index.html

[GSOphile]

Originally Posted by marsalis

In regards to time/phase coherent loudspeakers, none of the speakers involved here subscribe to the established definition of what time/phase coherent loudspeaker is. All three loudspeakers have a conventional step response, although some exhibit better time/phase behavior than others (at least their drivers are connected in positive acoustic polarity).

More information on time/phase coherent loudspeakers from JA: https://www.stereophile.com/features/100/index.html

I remember reading this article and JA's main points on time/phase coherence. Thanks for bringing it back. I wonder what his view of the Dahlquist DQ-10 was/would have been if he'd measured it. (This was the first speaker I can recall that made a big point of this aspect of speaker performance.)

[tima]

Originally Posted by JoeN

...
Since you and others can’t answer the Wilson Alphabet cabinet question, perhaps you can answer a question on what some consider the weakest part of a Wilson speaker - it’s drivers! Does Wilson still use a cheap ferrite magnet in some of its speakers? Where does Wilson source the drivers for their speakers at? Where are yours sourced at? Do you know their maker and model? Charles, have you ever examined a Magico driver and a Wilson driver against one another? ...

It is unreasonable to expect others to do your homework for you when you don't appear willing to do it for yourself and offer nothing in return.

The information your are asking about is plentiful and if you really want to know it you can find it on the Web in reviews of Wilson speakers and in product descriptions on the Wilson Web site.

[knecht]

I happened to catch this video the other day. Toward the end of the video Cynthia asks Daryl about the materials and he would not disclose what makes up the composites they use, trade secret.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JTnaSrIIW2s

[tima]

Originally Posted by knecht

I happened to catch this video the other day. Toward the end of the video Cynthia asks Daryl about the materials and he would not disclose what makes up the composites they use, trade secret.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JTnaSrIIW2s

Of course Wilson will not reveal proprietary information or formulas- no one expects that. And likely those asking for it here wouldn't know what to do with it anyway. Point scoring threads like this - going on for 5 years - are stupid.

Asking others to provide answers to rhetorical questions belies a disigenuous intent. At least you were willing to say what you found in a video.

But there is plenty of info that Wilson does make available and it's easy to find.

Consider X material:

"Wilson makes the woofer cabinet with their proprietary X-material. This is a dense composite of mineral polymers, carbon, and cellulose bonded under extremely high pressure. Designed specifically for speaker cabinets, X- uniquely combines damping and rigidity to yield a narrow band of monotonic resonance."

[kzhtoo]

Is Charles ever going to come back to this thread to enlighten us with his rebuttal?

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

Is Charles ever going to come back to this thread to enlighten us with his rebuttal?

Doubtful, no need to troll.

[kzhtoo]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

Doubtful, no need to troll.

Alright.