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Old 03-01-2020, 12:35 PM
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Weirdcuba Weirdcuba is online now
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Default Schroeder Cable - Dual Interconnect Method

Does anyone have any information on this? I've found multiple threads on the internet, but would love someone with personal experience. Apparently, one doubles up on the wiring in an interconnect and reports of audible improvements are easy to find. The other thing that is easy to find are reports that say "use this at your own risk" / "may halve impedence and damage ..."

That said, I literally have no idea, so thought I would ask. I'm going to have a long interconnect run in my new room and since I have spent all of my money on the room, I'm trying not to spend any more on a long interconnect run.

Thanks.
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Main Rig: (waiting on room to be built)

Amplification > Accuphase A200 (2) / C3800 / C37 (long term)
Sources
> LampiZator Pacific DAC
> DirectStream Memory Player
> LampiZator SuperKomputer (via Roon/NAS)
> Magnum-Dynalab > MD-108T SE / MD-205
> ClearAudio / Innovation / Universal > Lyra / Kleos (except no turntable during renovation)
Speakers/Cables > TAD R-1 MKII > Verastarr Grand Illusion Statement Copper (1), Gold (1) // REL 212 SEs (2x)
Power > Accuphase PS 1230 (2) / 3 dedicated lines with PowerPorts
Foundation > Rix Rax > Hoodoo / Amp Stands > Stillpoints under as much as my bank account can then accommodate
IC/PC > Power // Verastarr Grand Illusion Statement HC, Grand Illusion Statement > ICs // Verastarr Grand Illusion Signature XLR > Digital // Verastarr Nemesis USB
Other > Audio Desk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner Pro

Rental (while the room is being built): Accuphase E650 replaces the C3800 and A200s. All of the other stuff above that's usable, except the turntable stuff. Using TAD CR-1s, rather than the R-1s.

Portables and Cans:

Cans > Sennheiser 800
IEMs > Westone W50, Bose QC20
Amplification > Auralic Taurus
Sources > Auralic Altair, Onkyo DP-X1
IC/SC/PC > Sennheiser Balanced / AQ Yukon XLRs / Shunyata Venom 3 (2) / Black Dragon Balanced


Kitchen:

KEF LS50 Wireless
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  #2  
Old 03-01-2020, 02:35 PM
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Doug is a friend and we have talked extensively on this. He uses this all over his system and says it has great positive impact.

That stated, I am uncertain of the ramifications and other than shotgun biwire with speaker cables which is by no means a new idea, I would not go there myself.
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Legacy Audio CaliberXD,Legacy Foundation Subs with Legacy Wavelet with HDPlex 200W LPSU & Revelation Audio Labs Passage Cryo-Silver DC Umbilical, Esoteric P-02, D-02, Legacy PowerBloc2, Cybershaft Premium Limited v2 OP21 10 MHz Clock, SHUNYATA TRITON v3 & TYPHON QR, Environmental Potentials EP-2050 & EP2750, CH Copper Busbar Main & GE Sub-panel, 20-amp dedicated, Dual 10’ Ground Rods, CADWELD bonding, Avatar Acoustics AfterBurner8 duplexes, Elrod MASTER SERIES Statement Gold Power cords, Elrod Statement Gold Power cords, Elrod Statement Silver Power cord, Elrod Statement Gold XLR, Shunyata SIGMA AES/EBU 110ohm, Shunyata SIGMA CLOCK-50, Shunyata SIGMA XLR, Shunyata Anaconda Zitron XLR, B.M.C. PureUSB1, Elrod Statement Gold speaker cables, Elrod MASTERS SERIES SG JUMPERS, Adona AV45CS4, AV45, Composite Audio CF-2010, HRS DPX Damping Plates, Stillpoints UltraSS w/Ultra Bases

Apple MacBook Pro 15”, 6-core i9, 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSDm Audirvana+ v3, iTunes
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Old 03-01-2020, 02:54 PM
clpetersen clpetersen is offline
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Default Schreoder method

Was curious - so looked around - here I think is good explanation of what is going on and why it might cause a difference in sound (better or worse):

"To a close approximation doing that will double the cable capacitance that is seen by the component that is driving the cable, and it will cut the resistance and inductance in half. For a line-level interconnect conducting analog signals the most significant of those changes is almost certain to be the doubled capacitance. The resulting sonic difference, if any, will depend on the output impedance of the component driving the cable (especially its impedance at high frequencies), the length of the cable, and the characteristics of the particular cable type. And if there is a difference, it may or may not be for the better, depending on those variables, the sonics of the system as a whole, and listener preference.

IMO. Regards,
-- Al "

Definitely do not do this method on any controlled impedance runs (i.e. digital coax)
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Old 03-01-2020, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clpetersen View Post
Was curious - so looked around - here I think is good explanation of what is going on and why it might cause a difference in sound (better or worse):

"To a close approximation doing that will double the cable capacitance that is seen by the component that is driving the cable, and it will cut the resistance and inductance in half. For a line-level interconnect conducting analog signals the most significant of those changes is almost certain to be the doubled capacitance. The resulting sonic difference, if any, will depend on the output impedance of the component driving the cable (especially its impedance at high frequencies), the length of the cable, and the characteristics of the particular cable type. And if there is a difference, it may or may not be for the better, depending on those variables, the sonics of the system as a whole, and listener preference.

IMO. Regards,
-- Al "

Definitely do not do this method on any controlled impedance runs (i.e. digital coax)
!!!
__________________
Legacy Audio CaliberXD,Legacy Foundation Subs with Legacy Wavelet with HDPlex 200W LPSU & Revelation Audio Labs Passage Cryo-Silver DC Umbilical, Esoteric P-02, D-02, Legacy PowerBloc2, Cybershaft Premium Limited v2 OP21 10 MHz Clock, SHUNYATA TRITON v3 & TYPHON QR, Environmental Potentials EP-2050 & EP2750, CH Copper Busbar Main & GE Sub-panel, 20-amp dedicated, Dual 10’ Ground Rods, CADWELD bonding, Avatar Acoustics AfterBurner8 duplexes, Elrod MASTER SERIES Statement Gold Power cords, Elrod Statement Gold Power cords, Elrod Statement Silver Power cord, Elrod Statement Gold XLR, Shunyata SIGMA AES/EBU 110ohm, Shunyata SIGMA CLOCK-50, Shunyata SIGMA XLR, Shunyata Anaconda Zitron XLR, B.M.C. PureUSB1, Elrod Statement Gold speaker cables, Elrod MASTERS SERIES SG JUMPERS, Adona AV45CS4, AV45, Composite Audio CF-2010, HRS DPX Damping Plates, Stillpoints UltraSS w/Ultra Bases

Apple MacBook Pro 15”, 6-core i9, 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSDm Audirvana+ v3, iTunes
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  #5  
Old 03-01-2020, 08:15 PM
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lance002 lance002 is online now
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I have been using this method since August 2019.

For me, the increase in clarity is close to individually adding the (many) Furutech NCF Flux 50 (before), ADD-POWR items (after) and High Fidelity magnetic RCA adapters (after), although I think there may be an additive effect of those items added after; close to a component change for adding each of these items.

None of this makes sense to me, but the results are outstanding; I have seen reams of internet chatter how absolutely none of this can ever make a difference, yet I can hear the improvement within 10 seconds. Adding another connection sounds better, not worse? An emphatic "yes."

Finally hearing the harmony verse "Ventura Boulevard" on Tom Petty's Free Fallin' with complete clarity of all of the voices was shocking.

I use the Audio Sensibility Statement SE OCC silver RCA Y-splitter cables (in sets of four); they are directional one-way (i.e., one end is "backwards" when you use this method) as they were not designed for this method, but for normal one-way (mono out to "two channel" in), although I cannot tell if that has any effect.

I continue to be amazed at how much more I can squeeze out of my equipment and wonder if Julian Hirsch (gasp!) was right (but maybe for the wrong reasons, unless he figured out all of this stuff 50 years ago and kept quiet): OK, maybe not.

There is a thread on A'gon and it may put to rest some of the issues regarding "at own risk" (class D amplifiers appear to have the most potential issues, at least as thought early on). It is quite long, but it mentions a lot of equipment brands that have had positive results with this method.

It should be noted this method may not be what is traditionally known as "shotgun" as the two separate runs of same-length (and usually same model) interconnects are not encased, but "hang" separately (I give mine a twist or two).

I have had no negative issues with analog interconnects with my brands of linestage, amplifier, SACD player, reel-to-reel player or DSD recorder. Apparently it can be used with power cords, USB, speaker cables, etc. (I have not tried these).

Substantial wow-factor for me at relatively low cost compared to the items I have purchased to clean AC power. The only downside is that dreaded process known as "break-in"; another two-weeks-plus of waiting to hear my system in full splendor (currently suffering though another period with a fresh batch of High Fidelity Signature magnetic RCA adapters).

Another audio "thing" I cannot live without.
__________________
Main: Aurender X100L, Esoteric Grandioso K1, The Truth linestage, Mara Machines MCI JH110 Reel to Reel 1/4" 2 track Hi-Fi version, Coincident M300B Frankenstein II amplifiers, 300B Psvane ACME Supreme 1% tubes, Coincident Triumph Extreme II speakers, Coincident Statement interconnects, Coincident Statement speaker cables, Coincident and Shunyata power cords, Coincident Statement USB, Element subwoofer with Behringer 24/96 crossover, Final Audio Design Sonorous X headphones, EMIA silver autoformer headphone volume control, Nordost Qbase8, Furutech FLUX 50 NCF and GTX-D NCF (R), HRS DPX Damping Plates, Tascam DA-3000/Mutec 3+ USB/SOtM 75 ohm, Mutec REF10, Shunyata Sigma Clock 50, Stillpoints, Symposium, Auralex, ADD-Powr ElectraClear/Wizard/Sorcer, PS Audio Noise Harvesters, High Fidelity Signature magnetic RCA adapters and MC-05.

Bedroom Headphone: Aurender N100H, Sonoma Acoustics Model One, WireWorld Platinum Starlight 7 USB, Furutech FLUX 50 NCF, Nordost Qbase4 QX4 QV2 and Frey 2 power cords, Stillpoints, ADD-Powr ElectraClear, PS Audio Noise Harvesters, High Fidelity MC-05.
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  #6  
Old 03-01-2020, 10:05 PM
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Weirdcuba Weirdcuba is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lance002 View Post
I have been using this method since August 2019.

For me, the increase in clarity is close to individually adding the (many) Furutech NCF Flux 50 (before), ADD-POWR items (after) and High Fidelity magnetic RCA adapters (after), although I think there may be an additive effect of those items added after; close to a component change for adding each of these items.

None of this makes sense to me, but the results are outstanding; I have seen reams of internet chatter how absolutely none of this can ever make a difference, yet I can hear the improvement within 10 seconds. Adding another connection sounds better, not worse? An emphatic "yes."

Finally hearing the harmony verse "Ventura Boulevard" on Tom Petty's Free Fallin' with complete clarity of all of the voices was shocking.

I use the Audio Sensibility Statement SE OCC silver RCA Y-splitter cables (in sets of four); they are directional one-way (i.e., one end is "backwards" when you use this method) as they were not designed for this method, but for normal one-way (mono out to "two channel" in), although I cannot tell if that has any effect.

I continue to be amazed at how much more I can squeeze out of my equipment and wonder if Julian Hirsch (gasp!) was right (but maybe for the wrong reasons, unless he figured out all of this stuff 50 years ago and kept quiet): OK, maybe not.

There is a thread on A'gon and it may put to rest some of the issues regarding "at own risk" (class D amplifiers appear to have the most potential issues, at least as thought early on). It is quite long, but it mentions a lot of equipment brands that have had positive results with this method.

It should be noted this method may not be what is traditionally known as "shotgun" as the two separate runs of same-length (and usually same model) interconnects are not encased, but "hang" separately (I give mine a twist or two).

I have had no negative issues with analog interconnects with my brands of linestage, amplifier, SACD player, reel-to-reel player or DSD recorder. Apparently it can be used with power cords, USB, speaker cables, etc. (I have not tried these).

Substantial wow-factor for me at relatively low cost compared to the items I have purchased to clean AC power. The only downside is that dreaded process known as "break-in"; another two-weeks-plus of waiting to hear my system in full splendor (currently suffering though another period with a fresh batch of High Fidelity Signature magnetic RCA adapters).

Another audio "thing" I cannot live without.


What connections do you use this for? I’m thinking about a very long run between preamp (Accuphase c-3800) and amps (Accuphase a-200s).

Thanks. Very interesting stuff - very well regarded by some highly placed folks in this world.
__________________
Main Rig: (waiting on room to be built)

Amplification > Accuphase A200 (2) / C3800 / C37 (long term)
Sources
> LampiZator Pacific DAC
> DirectStream Memory Player
> LampiZator SuperKomputer (via Roon/NAS)
> Magnum-Dynalab > MD-108T SE / MD-205
> ClearAudio / Innovation / Universal > Lyra / Kleos (except no turntable during renovation)
Speakers/Cables > TAD R-1 MKII > Verastarr Grand Illusion Statement Copper (1), Gold (1) // REL 212 SEs (2x)
Power > Accuphase PS 1230 (2) / 3 dedicated lines with PowerPorts
Foundation > Rix Rax > Hoodoo / Amp Stands > Stillpoints under as much as my bank account can then accommodate
IC/PC > Power // Verastarr Grand Illusion Statement HC, Grand Illusion Statement > ICs // Verastarr Grand Illusion Signature XLR > Digital // Verastarr Nemesis USB
Other > Audio Desk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner Pro

Rental (while the room is being built): Accuphase E650 replaces the C3800 and A200s. All of the other stuff above that's usable, except the turntable stuff. Using TAD CR-1s, rather than the R-1s.

Portables and Cans:

Cans > Sennheiser 800
IEMs > Westone W50, Bose QC20
Amplification > Auralic Taurus
Sources > Auralic Altair, Onkyo DP-X1
IC/SC/PC > Sennheiser Balanced / AQ Yukon XLRs / Shunyata Venom 3 (2) / Black Dragon Balanced


Kitchen:

KEF LS50 Wireless
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2020, 11:41 PM
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lance002 lance002 is online now
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 43
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Current connections:

Esoteric K1 RCA analog outputs to The Truth Linestage (passive, but uses light to attenuate volume, so it has AC cord) RCA inputs

MCI JH110 reel to reel XLR output to RCA using Cardas Clear adapter to either Tascam DA3000 (DSD recorder) or The Truth Linestage RCA inputs

The Truth Linestage RCA outputs to Coincident Frankenstein II 300B mono RCA inputs

My linestage is designed to work with very long RCA runs, but the longest I use are 1 meter pairs to each channel, plus each Y adapter is about 6 inches (each end), so about 52 inches (the runs to my amplifiers are half meter quads, a pair to each amp, so 32 inches; I was previously using a one meter to each amp, so kind of an added bonus by reducing the price of two sets of interconnects by half meter each, easily paying for the Y adapters).

I encourage you to read the A'gon thread; cable length is not relevant to me, but I think there is a discussion about very long cables and whether or not it works well with this method (something to do with halving or doubling an electronic measurement - I think if you need a 5 meter run using this method, then your equipment needs to be able to handle a 10 meter run of "normal" interconnects).
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Main: Aurender X100L, Esoteric Grandioso K1, The Truth linestage, Mara Machines MCI JH110 Reel to Reel 1/4" 2 track Hi-Fi version, Coincident M300B Frankenstein II amplifiers, 300B Psvane ACME Supreme 1% tubes, Coincident Triumph Extreme II speakers, Coincident Statement interconnects, Coincident Statement speaker cables, Coincident and Shunyata power cords, Coincident Statement USB, Element subwoofer with Behringer 24/96 crossover, Final Audio Design Sonorous X headphones, EMIA silver autoformer headphone volume control, Nordost Qbase8, Furutech FLUX 50 NCF and GTX-D NCF (R), HRS DPX Damping Plates, Tascam DA-3000/Mutec 3+ USB/SOtM 75 ohm, Mutec REF10, Shunyata Sigma Clock 50, Stillpoints, Symposium, Auralex, ADD-Powr ElectraClear/Wizard/Sorcer, PS Audio Noise Harvesters, High Fidelity Signature magnetic RCA adapters and MC-05.

Bedroom Headphone: Aurender N100H, Sonoma Acoustics Model One, WireWorld Platinum Starlight 7 USB, Furutech FLUX 50 NCF, Nordost Qbase4 QX4 QV2 and Frey 2 power cords, Stillpoints, ADD-Powr ElectraClear, PS Audio Noise Harvesters, High Fidelity MC-05.

Last edited by lance002; 03-02-2020 at 12:26 AM.
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