The Famous McIntosh Meter Evolves !?!

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Still-One

Ivan
I agree appearance is a key concern for me too but it sure isn't Big Meters that had me in the McIntosh camp. In fact they go way overboard with putting meters on products. People can try and justify it all they want most of their meters are eye candy.

Jim

I think Mac meters are very useful as well as looking great. Let me give you an example and I would appreciate a comment from anybody. I own a Thor subwoofer and have some realy low frequency material. It is not a well known fact that on the 9th cut "Polka and Fugue" Reference Recording's famous Pomp and Pipes CD in the climax right at the end just before the massive bass drums there is one of the most vicious prolonged bass notes ever generated on recorded material. I first noticed it when I had my Krell MRS. The MRS distorted all over the place. I actually threw the disc away it irritated me so much. Since I got my Thor I re-ordered it. Most systems' woofers don't even acknowledge its existence but believe me, it is there. I doubt that Wilson XLF woofers would even make much effort to play it. They wouldn't distort but would pass blissfully over it and the listener would never be aware of it.

Well, the Thor not only makes you aware of it, the Thor reproduces it in all its glory. If you have a high fi system and have never heard a note like this you are missing something tremendous. When that note hits it takes about 300-400 watts from my 601. I know this because of the watt/hold feature on my 601. The Maxxes are doing about 150 in each channel. I know this because of the watt hold feature on my 1.2kw's. I also have a bass blast that requires nearly 600 watts from the Thor. Knowing the precise wattage your system is demanding at all times is a feature I would never give up. Mac is the only manufacturer that I know of that supplies this level of system monitoring.

Many subs that advertise huge wattage don't deliver because the wall outlet cannot provide the watts. You cannot repeal the laws of physics. A relatively small sealed system, i.e. your typical high wattage "small" sub, never supplies the actual wattage used by means of a meter or other device because I don't believe the manufacturer wants you to know the dynamics of what is happening. Most subs distort on realy low notes because even a 20 amp line can only supply about 1200 watts absolute max. For a sealed subwoofer to do 16 Hz at a high level would IMO require much more than 1200 watts. The sensitivity of the Thor is 94 db. Even so, I watch my meters very carefully, both on my 1.2kw's and my 601, especially my 601. I believe the 601 to be the most versatle high end amp on the market. It is a classic. I can tell you that it drives and controls my Thor to ridiculous levels superbly. The bass quality it provides is also superb, and you know what the Thor is requiring in terms of wattage at all times. Most of the time on regular material it is on the order of about 0.06 to 6 watts. It is surprising that on normal material even with the LP filter set to an 18 db/octave roll off at 30 Hz, the Thor is always active supplying significant music to my system in the form of ambient information. I would never know this without my 601's meters. I can easily see the meter and the scale at my listening position because of its large size. It is easy to hear this ambient information in the form of a vastly enlarged sound stage and life, increased detail and high frequency extension. It makes the main speaker sound like it has a super tweeter with an extremely sweet extended high end. The bass must be heard to be believed.

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by Still-One

Ivan
I agree appearance is a key concern for me too but it sure isn't Big Meters that had me in the McIntosh camp. In fact they go way overboard with putting meters on products. People can try and justify it all they want most of their meters are eye candy.

Jim

Jim... I have to disagree; think how silly the MCLK12 would look without meters.

[piolaxo]

Originally Posted by Charles

I think Mac meters are very useful as well as looking great. Let me give you an example and I would appreciate a comment from anybody. I own a Thor subwoofer and have some realy low frequency material. It is not a well known fact that on the 9th cut "Polka and Fugue" Reference Recording's famous Pomp and Pipes CD in the climax right at the end just before the massive bass drums there is one of the most vicious prolonged bass notes ever generated on recorded material. I first noticed it when I had my Krell MRS. The MRS distorted all over the place. I actually threw the disc away it irritated me so much. Since I got my Thor I re-ordered it. Most systems' woofers don't even acknowledge its existence but believe me, it is there. I doubt that Wilson XLF woofers would even make much effort to play it. They wouldn't distort but would pass blissfully over it and the listener would never be aware of it.

Well, the Thor not only makes you aware of it, the Thor reproduces it in all its glory. If you have a high fi system and have never heard a note like this you are missing something tremendous. When that note hits it takes about 300-400 watts from my 601. I know this because of the watt/hold feature on my 601. The Maxxes are doing about 150 in each channel. I know this because of the watt hold feature on my 1.2kw's. I also have a bass blast that requires nearly 600 watts from the Thor. Knowing the precise wattage your system is demanding at all times is a feature I would never give up. Mac is the only manufacturer that I know of that supplies this level of system monitoring.

Many subs that advertise huge wattage don't deliver because the wall outlet cannot provide the watts. You cannot repeal the laws of physics. A relatively small sealed system, i.e. your typical high wattage "small" sub, never supplies the actual wattage used by means of a meter or other device because I don't believe the manufacturer wants you to know the dynamics of what is happening. Most subs distort on realy low notes because even a 20 amp line can only supply about 1200 watts absolute max. For a sealed subwoofer to do 16 Hz at a high level would IMO require much more than 1200 watts. The sensitivity of the Thor is 94 db. Even so, I watch my meters very carefully, both on my 1.2kw's and my 601, especially my 601. I believe the 601 to be the most versatle high end amp on the market. It is a classic. I can tell you that it drives and controls my Thor to ridiculous levels superbly. The bass quality it provides is also superb, and you know what the Thor is requiring in terms of wattage at all times. Most of the time on regular material it is on the order of about 0.06 to 6 watts. It is surprising that on normal material even with the LP filter set to an 18 db/octave roll off at 30 Hz, the Thor is always active supplying significant music to my system in the form of ambient information. I would never know this without my 601's meters. I can easily see the meter and the scale at my listening position because of its large size. It is easy to hear this ambient information in the form of a vastly enlarged sound stage and life, increased detail and high frequency extension. It makes the main speaker sound like it has a super tweeter with an extremely sweet extended high end. The bass must be heard to be believed.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by Charles

I think Mac meters are very useful as well as looking great. Let me give you an example and I would appreciate a comment from anybody. I own a Thor subwoofer and have some realy low frequency material. It is not a well known fact that on the 9th cut "Polka and Fugue" Reference Recording's famous Pomp and Pipes CD in the climax right at the end just before the massive bass drums there is one of the most vicious prolonged bass notes ever generated on recorded material. I first noticed it when I had my Krell MRS. The MRS distorted all over the place. I actually threw the disc away it irritated me so much. Since I got my Thor I re-ordered it. Most systems' woofers don't even acknowledge its existence but believe me, it is there. I doubt that Wilson XLF woofers would even make much effort to play it. They wouldn't distort but would pass blissfully over it and the listener would never be aware of it.

Well, the Thor not only makes you aware of it, the Thor reproduces it in all its glory. If you have a high fi system and have never heard a note like this you are missing something tremendous. When that note hits it takes about 300-400 watts from my 601. I know this because of the watt/hold feature on my 601. The Maxxes are doing about 150 in each channel. I know this because of the watt hold feature on my 1.2kw's. I also have a bass blast that requires nearly 600 watts from the Thor. Knowing the precise wattage your system is demanding at all times is a feature I would never give up. Mac is the only manufacturer that I know of that supplies this level of system monitoring.

Many subs that advertise huge wattage don't deliver because the wall outlet cannot provide the watts. You cannot repeal the laws of physics. A relatively small sealed system, i.e. your typical high wattage "small" sub, never supplies the actual wattage used by means of a meter or other device because I don't believe the manufacturer wants you to know the dynamics of what is happening. Most subs distort on realy low notes because even a 20 amp line can only supply about 1200 watts absolute max. For a sealed subwoofer to do 16 Hz at a high level would IMO require much more than 1200 watts. The sensitivity of the Thor is 94 db. Even so, I watch my meters very carefully, both on my 1.2kw's and my 601, especially my 601. I believe the 601 to be the most versatle high end amp on the market. It is a classic. I can tell you that it drives and controls my Thor to ridiculous levels superbly. The bass quality it provides is also superb, and you know what the Thor is requiring in terms of wattage at all times. Most of the time on regular material it is on the order of about 0.06 to 6 watts. It is surprising that on normal material even with the LP filter set to an 18 db/octave roll off at 30 Hz, the Thor is always active supplying significant music to my system in the form of ambient information. I would never know this without my 601's meters. I can easily see the meter and the scale at my listening position because of its large size. It is easy to hear this ambient information in the form of a vastly enlarged sound stage and life, increased detail and high frequency extension. It makes the main speaker sound like it has a super tweeter with an extremely sweet extended high end. The bass must be heard to be believed.

Charles
I was speaking of the gratuitous use of meters on turntables, power control devices, and pre-amps. I owned the 1.2ks and sure the meters looked nice yet driving my very inefficient MBL 111f's (83dB) they probably never saw 120 watts. They were awesome night lights and looked great.

I will not restate my position on subs in non HT set-ups. I am glad you found a piece of music that had an instrument that gets to 30Hz.

Jim

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

Jim... I have to disagree; think how silly the MCLK12 would look without meters.

Ivan
They could look like the non metered power channels on your 2K's. Now those are class.

Jim

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Still-One

Charles
I was speaking of the gratuitous use of meters on turntables, power control devices, and pre-amps. I owned the 1.2ks and sure the meters looked nice yet driving my very inefficient MBL 111f's (83dB) they probably never saw 120 watts. They were awesome night lights and looked great.

I will not restate my position on subs in non HT set-ups. I am glad you found a piece of music that had an instrument that gets to 30Hz.

Jim

Jim, of course folks have different opinions concerning meters and I appreciate your position, that the meters are maily cosmetic (for you). I'm not sure what you mean about "finding a piece of music that had an instrument that gets to 30 Hz." I also appreciate that folks listen at different sound levels. As you know listening twice as loud requires 10X the power. It doesn't take all that much change in subjective loudness to require a lot more watts especially with grossly inefficient speakers. With grossly inefficiect speakers, Mac meters make a lot of sense because of the potential of clipping the amp. Most small box subs overload because of inadequate wall current, IMO. Many folks use subs with music systems. This is a trend that is steadily increasing and I think it makes a lot of sense. Wouldn't it be useful to know whether it is the sub or the wall outlet that is the culprit in case of an overload? Meters would indicate where the problem originates. The other thing about Mac meters that I really like is the ability to evaluate the occurance of a strong transient that unexpectedly shoots through the system. I hate it when it happens, try to avoid it at all costs, but we have all had one or two horrible gut wrenching experiences in this regard. Then we hope nothing happened to the tweeter or woofers. What a relief to see the meter pegged to just a hundred watts or so. I sure can't tell exactly how many watts are pouring through my speakers when I am scurrying to turn the volume down and I accidently in my haste turn it up even more.

[62caddy]

Nothing wrong with the new look per se but it doesn't say McIntosh. Perhaps it's more intended as a trial balloon than a sign of things to come.

[elbig]

FWIW. I like the new meters on my 8207. It is used mainly for home theater. Even though the real meters look better, They are so bright I would turn them off while watching. The new meters look great in the dark and do not distract from the viewing. It's fun to watch them especially during loud action scenes.