Ripping SACDs, possible?

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by David

In Reply to: Putting SACDs on a music server posted by mschlack on January 7, 2009 at 18:31:27:

First, you may be able to install a board that will extract the DSD from an Oppo player, convert it to PCM, and send it out via a coax connection to your DAC, or if you like to your computer for recording. For a while there was a link to this board at http://www.switch-box.com/ The board no longer appears. Perhaps it was illegal.

I have one of those with 3 S/PDIF outputs and it works well. I can play the L/R S/PDIF output to a soundcard and grab it. However, there is no convenient way to do this for MCH recordings.

[JJinID]

I wonder if something like this would work assuming it would convert the SACD via HDMI to digital outs

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[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by JJinID

I wonder if something like this would work assuming it would convert the SACD via HDMI to digital outs

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It will not. It will not even convert dts MA or Dolby THD.

[BearCubinNY]

I have sent the analog SACD output from my transport (Naim CD555) to my A/D (Metric Halo LIO+8) and it does sound better than the redbook version. I have a few archived this way on my Sooloos. I've done the same with vinyl as well, both using Pure Vinyl to create the files.

It's a bit of a PITA though. Every recording requires ad hoc attention to the levels to maximize it's dynamic range. There's also no easy way to quantized the tracks if you expect to play the files in another system other than PV. Which means baby sitting the recording process on a per track basis!

Sonically I can extract the difference, but haven't developed an acceptable workflow to justify my efforts. One caveat, on some of the high end vinyl pressings the quality is so well done that this method has yielded great digital copies that I have archived to the Sooloos.

Reg

[Dj_AmTraX]

There are so... many people much smarter than me who could write an application to do this and make some money selling the app. I know there's the Sony DRM on DSD stream, but I'm sure someone is smart enough to hack it.

[blacsno]

Originally Posted by Dj_AmTraX

There are so... many people much smarter than me who could write an application to do this and make some money selling the app. I know there's the Sony DRM on DSD stream, but I'm sure someone is smart enough to hack it.

Yep.... Just as soon as a company releases the hardware to play SACD on a PC! ERRRRR NOT! Think about in this manner a CD is SQUARE. In order to play the SQUARE you buy a SQUARE player. SACD is a TRIANGLE, so in order to play SACD. You guess it a TRIANGLE player! Developing software based on TRIANGLE hardware to be used on a SQUARE player......... Sony isn't about to let the genie out of the bottle again!

[Tonepub]

Originally Posted by BearCubinNY

I have sent the analog SACD output from my transport (Naim CD555) to my A/D (Metric Halo LIO+8) and it does sound better than the redbook version. I have a few archived this way on my Sooloos. I've done the same with vinyl as well, both using Pure Vinyl to create the files.

It's a bit of a PITA though. Every recording requires ad hoc attention to the levels to maximize it's dynamic range. There's also no easy way to quantized the tracks if you expect to play the files in another system other than PV. Which means baby sitting the recording process on a per track basis!

Sonically I can extract the difference, but haven't developed an acceptable workflow to justify my efforts. One caveat, on some of the high end vinyl pressings the quality is so well done that this method has yielded great digital copies that I have archived to the Sooloos.

Reg

How are you playing SACD's on the CD555? I thought it was only a redbook player....

[blacsno]

You can rip sacd's to pc's using the analog in to capture the sound as 6 wav channels then encoding those into dts. This concept would be no difference than ripping a LP.

How ironic that Sony used an impossible encryption on SACD (which, let's face it, didn't set the world on fire),
The SACD was developed at a time the big record companies were going through a shock, as the ease the Audio CDs could be copied was damaging their higly profitable album sales business model. And since CDs could not be copy protected, they needed a new format that could be copy protected, and they needed it now.

So, when the record companies heard that Sony was making a new audio format, the said to Sony something to the tune of "lock the content inside the disc and never let it out, or else you won't to see any releases on this new format. We don't want to have the CD debacle repeated again". Also, don't forget that Sony owns Sony BMG, a major supporter of DRM-everywhere.

Thus, SACD was designed from day 1 to be impenetrable, and that's the reason for the impossible encryption. Sony also banned the making of PC drives. This serves two purposes: First, it prevented the creation of ripping programs. Secondly, it cancelled the existense of software players (like WinDVD). By keeping the decrypton algorithm in hardware, they would greatly discourage any reverse engineering efforts (this trick is applied by the cable tv business as well).

and then allowed their standard CDs to be copied again and again for your gramma, Sid, the guy at work, and anybody else who I would make a copy for if they furnished a blank CD. I hate Sony.
The CD was developed in different times. Back then, CD recorders were still in prototype stage, and were bat f... expensive (they didn't start to go cheap untill 1996). There was no Napster, no torrent. No record companies going through a shock. Also, most formats back then were not copy protected (DAT, VHS, laserdisc etc), so the idea of a protected format was pretty much science fiction back then. Simply, there was too little incentive to put copy protection on Audio CDs.

By the time napster/torrent/CD recorders appeared, it was too late. CD players were everywhere, so you just couldn't break compatibility with all this huge installed base to put copy protection in them. So, the record companies kept their CD line of products rolling, hoping that the public would soon jump to the copy protected SACD for the higher quality, and CDs would be gradually phased out of the market. Just like DVD displaced VHS for the movie industry (however, I don't know if it would have if it was as heavily protected as sacd and no pc drives existed). But in the case of CD vs SACD, the public prefered good ol' CDs and passed on the SACD. Good for us.

[JJinID]

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

It will not. It will not even convert dts MA or Dolby THD.

Interesting - I have read on another forum where this Monoprice box does work sending SACD converted to PCM 88.2/24 via HDMI via an Oppo BDP-83. You are likely correct Kal that it doesn't do anything for other HD audio.

I have also read that this box, albeit more expensive, will also work better for this purpose and will convert up to 192/24:

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[Dj_AmTraX]

My head is starting to hurt thinking about how to do this right. I may be better off just playing the damn sacd on my SCD-1 player.