AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Audio & Video > General Speaker Discussion

General Speaker Discussion Calling all Speakers

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-08-2020, 12:24 AM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 23,609
Default

Human hearing is highly non linear. https://physicsworld.com/a/human-hea...hly-nonlinear/
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-08-2020, 12:40 AM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 23,609
Default

Conclusions

Human hearing is everything but linear and flat. Simply changing a reference level, will impact the way the sound will be perceived: not only louder or quieter, but with a different tone as well. This puts frequency flatness into perspective.

https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_nonlinear.php
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-08-2020, 04:26 AM
Petronius Petronius is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Hood Canal
Posts: 61
Default

PHC1, Here's my response to your last 3 posts ;
I can't speak of what "most" studios are monitoring on but I'd bet that they are mid-field speakers (for classical anyway) rather than bridge monitors. And that they are set out in front of the recording desk because of spacial relationships are very important to orchestral music.
I do listen to real monitor speakers. At realistic sound levels. I don't listen to Headphones. I don't like them.
My hearing is not linear, and I have tinnitus. Sitting in front the timpani for 40 years will do that to you. And even though my hearing is not linear I can hear when a speaker is not performing in a linear fashion. A I'd bet you can too. I see for your main system you are using Harbeth 30.2's. Those are a very neutral speaker, with a well earned reputation. After the amount of time you've spent listening to them, I'd bet you can readily hear a speaker behaving in a non-linear way also.
regarding "audiophile" recordings. I've heard some that take me to musical nirvana, and some that just sound like hell.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-08-2020, 08:48 AM
Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
Well, since you inquired, I shared my opinion based on what is considered common knowledge that studio speakers are typically striving for accuracy and are fairly unforgiving and audiophile speakers are voiced by their designers for musicality (most of the time).
Musicality is so highly subjective a description that it is pointless. IMHO, of course.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-08-2020, 10:10 AM
Formerly YB-2's Avatar
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is offline
Retired

 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ Shore
Posts: 8,404
Default

1+. IMHO., of course, too.
__________________
Glenn...
Clearaudio SM Pro Focal Bathys JLA 10" Dominion Kuzma Stabi S w/MC & MM Magnepan 1,7i McIntosh MA8950 Oppo 203 Roon Nucleus Rose Hifi RS150B Shunyata Gemini-4 Sony ST-A6B, TA-F6B & PS-X75 Sorane SA1.2 & TA-1L Stillpoints LP1v2 WW Pt, Au & Ag
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-08-2020, 11:25 AM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 23,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
PHC1, Here's my response to your last 3 posts ;
I can't speak of what "most" studios are monitoring on but I'd bet that they are mid-field speakers (for classical anyway) rather than bridge monitors. And that they are set out in front of the recording desk because of spacial relationships are very important to orchestral music.
I do listen to real monitor speakers. At realistic sound levels. I don't listen to Headphones. I don't like them.
My hearing is not linear, and I have tinnitus. Sitting in front the timpani for 40 years will do that to you. And even though my hearing is not linear I can hear when a speaker is not performing in a linear fashion. A I'd bet you can too. I see for your main system you are using Harbeth 30.2's. Those are a very neutral speaker, with a well earned reputation. After the amount of time you've spent listening to them, I'd bet you can readily hear a speaker behaving in a non-linear way also.
regarding "audiophile" recordings. I've heard some that take me to musical nirvana, and some that just sound like hell.

The Harbeth 30.2 in my case is rather flattish in the typical BBC fashion but there is not a often seen hump/boost in the bass, there is a slight dip through the presence region and a steep drop of top end to keep away from tweeter non-linearity zone and eliminate any and all tweeter harshness.

In the time domain, the tweeter is connected in inverted acoustic polarity, its woofer in positive polarity, common with some other BBC-heritage designs. The tweeter's output has decayed before the output of the woofer arrives. This design is neither time-coherent nor time-coincident, but its design is optimized for its frequency-domain performance, or pleasant to the ear...

The Harbeth's cumulative spectral-decay or waterfall plot is clean overall although the cabinets are not designed to be completely non-resonant. This is where over 30 years of experience comes in.

Tuning of the cabinet for sympathetic resonance.

Some earlier Franco Serblin designs of Sonus Faber had a very noticeable sympathetic resonance of the cabinet to particular frequencies and instruments were enhanced. Listen to a violin or a cello on an earlier Sonus Faber speaker. It was more beautiful/romantic/sweeter than in life in many cases. The cabinet resonances almost added to the complex harmonic structure of music. That's art, not flat linearity...


Getting back to Harbeth...

Combined, those parameters are TUNED for musicality.

It is a very pleasant, non-fatiguing speaker that does sound as if the midrange is very accurate but never lean and never overly chesty. Is it a perfect studio speaker? It was never designed to mix music on.

The early BBC speakers were designed for accurate broadcasting of a human voice. It does that very well to this day. The midrange is what our ears are most tuned and accustomed to, it is a survival instinct. We can cannot hear bass or high frequencies very well, not like other animals from the same genetic tree of life.

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-08-2020, 11:28 AM
BuffaloBill BuffaloBill is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
Well, since you inquired, I shared my opinion based on what is considered common knowledge that studio speakers are typically striving for accuracy and are fairly unforgiving and audiophile speakers are voiced by their designers for musicality (most of the time).
Peter Thomas designs his PMC professional studio and consumer home speakers to sound the same, e.g., my home OB1i has the HF and MF drivers as the studio midfield IB1S. He says a speaker should sound faithful and realistic as the recording artist intends. Makes sense to me.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-08-2020, 11:29 AM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 23,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
Musicality is so highly subjective a description that it is pointless. IMHO, of course.
Ok but here are the words of a fellow reviewer from Stereophile. Do not all reviewers view the topic of speaker musicality in a similar light? I'd love to hear your thoughts then.

Conclusions
Clearly, Alan Shaw understands that loudspeakers sound like the sum of their parts. He understands that you can't accurately reproduce timbres if the bits of Kevlar, carbon, titanium, or beryllium sing louder than the King's College Choir. Shaw also understands that the secret of making an accurate loudspeaker is not a gaudy cabinet that weighs a quarter of a ton. Harbeth Audio's Monitor 30.2 40th Anniversary Edition demonstrated that the best way to make a reference-quality loudspeaker might be the simplest: use cones and domes and boxes that minimize the aforementioned material colorations. Shaw says that the sound of his Radial2 cone is the least colored of all present-day bass-midrange cones. I believe he is right.

I also believe that Harbeth's Monitor 30.2 is the most neutral, accurate, tuneful, fun, and music-loving stand-mounted two-way speaker I've heard.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-08-2020, 11:32 AM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 23,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloBill View Post
Peter Thomas designs his PMC professional studio and consumer home speakers to sound the same, e.g., my home OB1i has the HF and MF drivers as the studio midfield IB1S. He says a speaker should sound faithful and realistic as the recording artist intends. Makes sense to me.
Peter Thomas may say what he likes of course but the graph shows something different. All speakers sound different. If the speaker sounds good to your ears, what is the difference how accurate it really is?

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-08-2020, 11:42 AM
BuffaloBill BuffaloBill is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
The midrange is what our ears are most tuned and accustomed to, it is a survival instinct. We can cannot hear bass or high frequencies very well, not like other animals from the same genetic tree of life.
I am glad to see a respected member finally admit this. The midrange is the most recognizable sound by the ear and defines the tonal character of what we hear. Paul Klipsch said "the midrange is where we live". To that end, horn and transmission line designs produce the cleanest (less distortion) and most natural midrange sound as compared to bass reflex designs..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:35 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video