McIntosh And JBL

[stereo_5]

I am currently breaking in a new pair of JBL L100 Classic speakers which I purchased mid December from Audio Classics. I am driving them with my McIntosh MA6600 Integrated. The speakers have well over 200 hours on them now. I knew that the speakers were forward sounding by reading all the reviews and didn’t think it would bother me. The bass is great as is the treble. It’s the midrange that is bothering me. If I turn back the midrange level control to reduce the forwardness, it doesn’t sound seamless going from the mids to the highs.

After reading this long introduction, I am thinking of trading my MA6600 in at Audio Classics and getting a McIntosh MC275 tube amp with a McIntosh C47 preamp. I am hoping this will tame the forward sounding midrange. I do not want to throw a lot of money into this if it doesn’t make much difference as I still have the GE Triton Ones I could put back into the system and sell the JBL’s. Do you think going to the tube amp will be better for the JBL speakers or am I just chasing my tail? The L100 Classics are not anything like the original 70’s pair as they are not a bright speaker at all.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by stereo_5

I am currently breaking in a new pair of JBL L100 Classic speakers which I purchased mid December from Audio Classics. I am driving them with my McIntosh MA6600 Integrated. The speakers have well over 200 hours on them now. I knew that the speakers were forward sounding by reading all the reviews and didn’t think it would bother me. The bass is great as is the treble. It’s the midrange that is bothering me. If I turn back the midrange level control to reduce the forwardness, it doesn’t sound seamless going from the mids to the highs.

After reading this long introduction, I am thinking of trading my MA6600 in at Audio Classics and getting a McIntosh MC275 tube amp with a McIntosh C47 preamp. I am hoping this will tame the forward sounding midrange. I do not want to throw a lot of money into this if it doesn’t make much difference as I still have the GE Triton Ones I could put back into the system and sell the JBL’s. Do you think going to the tube amp will be better for the JBL speakers or am I just chasing my tail? The L100 Classics are not anything like the original 70’s pair as they are not a bright speaker at all.

Stereo, I wouldn't do it. A bright mid to my ears is the most objectionable quality a speaker can have. Many if not most high quality modern high end speakers can do a reasonable job on the mid. While it is possible to tame a harsh mid with EQ, the sacrifice for me would be too much.

If you don't like the speaker, find one you like whose cost is commensurate with your Mac gear. I never heard a JBL L100 but the comment I heard back in the day was "forward midrange". Begin with a speaker whose sound you like (bass, mid, and treble) and try to make it better over the course of time. I hope things work out for you.

Best

Charles

____________________
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
Most recent updates: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); Wel Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for BR player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for tuner; cables for DVD player not listed
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
Room (mancave): 40’L x 15.5’W A-frame; max ceiling height 8’ min 5’; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6’s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house.

[gadawg]

Agree with Charles here ... if you don’t really like the speakers to start with I’m not sure swapping amps is going to fix anything especially given that many have run McIntosh and JBL and liked the results. If you said you loved the speakers but just wanted a bit of that tube magic then I’d say go for it but the tube amp won’t change the character of your speaker. Good luck

George

[W9TR]

Do you have your L-100’s on stands?

[stereo_5]

@W9TR,

The “official stands” are back ordered and AC doesn’t have an ETA. I have them on cinderblocks which are about the same height as the stands with the front lifted up a bit so they tilt back. At low volume (my preferred listening level) the speakers sound great. It is only when I push 30 to 40 watts through them do they sound forward in the midrange.

[Formerly YB-2]

While somewhat difficult with speakers sitting on cinder-blocks, playing with positioning may solve your problem. Have fond memories of the MA6600 and would have guessed the L100s would be a great match. Good luck making them work together.

[Charles]

Stereo, I also suspect that the L100's sound really good on some recordings but much less so on others, which to obtain satisfying volume level, the mid becomes harsh/bright.

There are limitations to how loud a speaker can play. The L100 is a flawed speaker but all speakers are flawed to some degree. If you really like the sound at the preferred listening level then a 275 might work because it would smooth out the mid to some degree. You also might try a tube pre.

I think you may be on the right track, if you like the sound at your preferred level. However, we all like to turn it up occasionally, and your thoughts might actually be correct.

Also, the stands will be important. I'd be patient. Wait for the stands. Try some room treatment. Be certain you have no slap echo in the room. Slap echo damages the midrange severely. Then see if you can arrange an audition with tube amplification, after you have the stands and eliminated any slap echo. I hope this works out for you.

Best

Charles

[W9TR]

Originally Posted by stereo_5

@W9TR,

The “official stands” are back ordered and AC doesn’t have an ETA. I have them on cinderblocks which are about the same height as the stands with the front lifted up a bit so they tilt back. At low volume (my preferred listening level) the speakers sound great. It is only when I push 30 to 40 watts through them do they sound forward in the midrange.

That’s the way I think they sound best: 15” to 20” off the floor tilted back quite a bit, say 2” higher in the front than the back. Amount of front lift depends on how far back you listen. Very little toe-in.
Good luck.
Tom

[stereo_5]

Do you think if I traded in my MA6600 integrated for a McIntosh integrated with the 5 or 8 band eq, I could adjust the 500 and 1500 frequency’s to take the midrange forwardness away? Do you think it’s a good move to trade in the MA6600 for the MC250 and compatible preamp? I would look for used at AC as I couldn’t afford brand new. After all it’s not my main system. Thoughts?

[Charles]

Originally Posted by stereo_5

Do you think if I traded in my MA6600 integrated for a McIntosh integrated with the 5 or 8 band eq, I could adjust the 500 and 1500 frequency’s to take the midrange forwardness away? Do you think it’s a good move to trade in the MA6600 for the MC250 and compatible preamp? I would look for used at AC as I couldn’t afford brand new. After all it’s not my main system. Thoughts?

Quick answer is yes, I think you are on the right track. If you can possibly afford it I'd go with the new MA12000. It's an integrated for life. It has the EQ you need and it has the tubes. When and if you ever upgrade it will drive to perfection any speaker. It has everything.

Best

Charles