CD players, Aka transports

[Mikado463]

Originally Posted by Antonmb

Ah yes, the old “bits is bits” argument. I too have gone all streaming - I ripped all my CDs to a NAS, put them in storage, and sold my last CD player 5 years ago. But I learned along the way that streaming, just like playing discs, requires investment and care to get it sounding great, and I wasn’t going to get there with just a Mac, a DAC and a generic USB cable. I’m very happy with my sound today, but I have more boxes and cables and spend more time on system maintenance than I ever did with discs. I abandoned CDs because I finally got streaming to sound great after lots of changes, and for space and convenience: I was out of room to store more CDs and wanted the space for more vinyl instead. I don’t regret the change one bit (pun intended), but I recognize that in a great setup, CDs can sound wonderful, require less maintenance and fewer boxes and cables, and there is pleasure to be derived from physical media and reading the booklets. I occasionally miss spinning CDs, but not enough to invest in a second digital path and try to create room for discs.

There is lots of room in this hobby for differing opinions and choices, and many means to achieve audio nirvana, all of which deserve respect. Some prefer making choices and investments (or lack thereof) based on their understanding of the science, while others prefer to make choices and investments based on what they hear and what gives them pleasure. You can choose to buy the car with the best rating from consumer reports, or the car you love to drive, but neither is the wrong choice.

and another very good reply Tony !

to a certain extent I understand Wised's reasoning. The cable debate will always continue but when I see folks spending crazy $$ on cables only to be used in a poorly designed room, speaking acoustically, I cringe ......

[ariess]

My Cd’s sound better than rips
Not sure why. There are a lot of pathologies in the handling of the digital stream (bits and bits but a
Bit stream here is not the same as there) so the way you handle the digital stream makes a difference.

[Cohibaman]

Originally Posted by ariess

My Cd’s sound better than rips
Not sure why. There are a lot of pathologies in the handling of the digital stream (bits and bits but a
Bit stream here is not the same as there) so the way you handle the digital stream makes a difference.

I think I know why....you’ve got one hell of a nice CD transport with that PX1!

[greekgod]

Originally Posted by Wised

Why does anyone buy or sell these anymore? I transferred all my CD's into FLAC files a couple of years ago and keep them all in a single thumb drive. 300+ CDs over 4thousand files. The drive is always on my 851N streamer where they are streamed as high rez audio. What is the use for a separate component when you can clone the CD bit by bit from the CD drive in your computer? Sounds a little counterintuitive to me. Particularly given the prices some of the gadgets cost. Remember, the 30 dollar drive in your computer can make an exact copy of your disc........
BTW many of those really old CDs are simply awful and nothing will make them sound better. You can find much better versions and recordings on Tidal and stream the straight from your streamer or at even higher rez from your computer.

Fair question and I used to feel the same way. I thought bits were bits so I ripped my cds and sold most of them off for next to nothing. As my stereo system got more expensive, I started to notice that the cds I still had sounded better than the ripped files which were supposed to sound identical. I have since regretted selling my cds and have repurchased most of the albums on vinyl since vinyl sounds even better yet. However, there are some albums that have only ever been released on cd and now I feel the need to gradually repurchased what I sold. I can't afford to own one but after hearing a full digital stack...WOW!!!! They can take your cds and sacds to a level you never thought possible!

[PMCH]

I prefer the sound of CDs on my system but I prefer the convenience of ripped CDs when I am not seriously listening

[W9TR]

There are a lot more variables to manage in a central storage and playback system than just spinning discs in a really good CD transport - with or without an outboard DAC.

For a lot of folks their CD spinner sounds better. Here's why.

The first thing you have to figure out is if your entire chain is bit-perfect. There are a number of ways to do this - the easiest is to encode a 5.1 channel DD or DTS audio source using your normal ripping process and then play it back from your streamer's digital output into a receiver or pre/pro that can decode DD or DTS. If the file it is bit-perfect throughout your entire chain then it will decode properly at the output of your streamer. If anything is amiss it won't.

If you have that base covered then you have to manage noise in your system. Your streamer may be connected via Ethernet, so you have to make sure there is no noise getting into it via that path. If it is WiFi, then you have the RF noise to deal with. You will want to make sure the RSSi of the WiFi path is robust so the streamer is using the minimum amount of RF power - this may mean relocating your WiFi access point or creating a dedicated subnet for it.

Once that is done, (maybe before), you need to make sure that your AC power is clean and that you are preventing AC noise from getting into or out of your streamer. To be fair this is also true of your disc spinner.

Then, if you are using an outboard DAC, you need to make sure that noise from the streamer is not getting into your DAC - cables matter here, as does the interface you use - be it USB or AES/EBU (recommended) or S/PDIF. Again, you have to do this with a disc spinner but there are fewer variables like Ethernet and WiFi to contend with.

There are other variables that come into hi-rez playback as well - like how you encode to FLAC if you use it, and how your streamer decodes hi-rez FLAC. The DD/DTS test I mentioned above cannot measure this.

Tom

[Antonmb]

Originally Posted by W9TR

There are a lot more variables to manage in a central storage and playback system than just spinning discs in a really good CD transport - with or without an outboard DAC.

For a lot of folks their CD spinner sounds better. Here's why.

The first thing you have to figure out is if your entire chain is bit-perfect. There are a number of ways to do this - the easiest is to encode a 5.1 channel DD or DTS audio source using your normal ripping process and then play it back from your streamer's digital output into a receiver or pre/pro that can decode DD or DTS. If the file it is bit-perfect throughout your entire chain then it will decode properly at the output of your streamer. If anything is amiss it won't.

If you have that base covered then you have to manage noise in your system. Your streamer may be connected via Ethernet, so you have to make sure there is no noise getting into it via that path. If it is WiFi, then you have the RF noise to deal with. You will want to make sure the RSSi of the WiFi path is robust so the streamer is using the minimum amount of RF power - this may mean relocating your WiFi access point or creating a dedicated subnet for it.

Once that is done, (maybe before), you need to make sure that your AC power is clean and that you are preventing AC noise from getting into or out of your streamer. To be fair this is also true of your disc spinner.

Then, if you are using an outboard DAC, you need to make sure that noise from the streamer is not getting into your DAC - cables matter here, as does the interface you use - be it USB or AES/EBU (recommended) or S/PDIF. Again, you have to do this with a disc spinner but there are fewer variables like Ethernet and WiFi to contend with.

There are other variables that come into hi-rez playback as well - like how you encode to FLAC if you use it, and how your streamer decodes hi-rez FLAC. The DD/DTS test I mentioned above cannot measure this.

Tom

Great post. There are certainly more complexities to achieving great streaming sound.

[jdandy]

All I can say is the complexity of spinning a CD is considerably simpler, and often delivers superior sound, than what is involved in setting up a music server, a streamer, or a NAS. Simple is a good thing, especially when it produces great performance.

[Audioraven]

Originally Posted by jdandy

All I can say is the complexity of spinning a CD is considerably simpler, and often delivers superior sound, than what is involved in setting up a music server, a streamer, or a NAS. Simple is a good thing, especially when it produces great performance.

[gadawg]

I’ve yet to hear a streamer that can compete with my P-02x. Of course I have a steamer as not everything is on SACD or even great red book anymore ... but after listening to an almost $20k streamer in the system ... It sounded closer to my ‘cheap’ streamer than it did the transport so I didn’t upgrade. That’s why I spin discs. I so badly wanted the streamer to win too ....

George