C1100 vs Reference 6 vs No 326s

[Charles]

Originally Posted by gadawg

Charles ... since I'm the person who began this thread let me correct you here. I began the thread to simply share my experience comparing three top quality preamps and that was it. Certainly not to "especially" showcase the Ref 6 as you put it. At the time I purchased the Sasha's I kept the Mark Levinson pre that I had even though I thought the Ref6 sounded better. I ended up then moving to a Mark Levinson No52 Ref as I liked that better than the AR and most recently have upgraded to the BAT Rex II preamp which for me is in a different league than any of the preamps mentioned earlier.... and I did say "for me" so I'm not saying its built any better just that I like the sound more. And Joey is correct ... I've never owned an AR preamp or amp even though I've considered it many times and might again if they make something I like better than what I have so I don't think I qualify as an AR fanboy! Take care buddy and enjoy your speakers!

George

But you do own two 160 mono unless I misunderstood and were quick to render your impression about AR vs Mac. You take care too, and enjoy your AR, and yes I consider you an AR aficionado.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

What does Dan's age have to do with anything? He's at the top of his game, I think.

I'm also a fan of Constellation, by the way.

I don't know why we don't hear from CJ people on that comparison, but I clearly stated it was JUST my opinion about ARC. I was trying to say that I'm not denigrating Mac, I just felt like ARC was an improvement in my system.

In fact, every time i've heard ARC+Wilson it's been glorious. Great pairing!

Another favorite pairing of mine is VTL+Wilson. Equally glorious, but a bit more expensive for those Siegfrieds!

Marc, you will have to figure out why almost exclusively AR and Dag aficionado's have this need to compare their gear to Mac. It's an interesting but tiresome phenomena. I wouldn't have a clue.

If you think anybody in their 80's can hear the way they did at age say 30, you are mistaken. If you think anyone in their 80's is at the top of their game the way they were at age say 40, you are mistaken.

[gadawg]

Originally Posted by Charles

But you do own two 160 mono unless I misunderstood and were quick to render your impression about AR vs Mac. You take care too, and enjoy your AR, and yes I consider you an AR aficionado.

Charles ... this is getting a little crazy ... I own Mark Levinson No536 mono's not AR...Never have owned an AR amp in my life not that I wouldn't I just haven't! Please look at my system profile.

George

[edward3132]

Charles

Many of us make comparison to Macs because it appears that almost all of us have started our hobby with that brand, me included. My first setup was a C2300 with a 452. Could not believe the sound.

I then started to hear about other gear, read more magazines/reviews, met people who shared my hobby and other gear to listen to, etc

That most of us have started with Macs and then migrated to something else should not be a reflection that we are now Mac bashers. I never will be. I just believe that the sound that I am looking for or like is no longer the sound that Macs make.

I do not know if you have tried other gear with your Wilsons or have always stayed with Macs. If you are happy with that sound, then great. Obviously you have built a great system over the years that I have been on AA.

I believe it ok for any of us to express our opinions of what we hear so that others can then take it for what's it worth. Sharing these thoughts I would assume is why AA is here.

Edward

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by edward3132

Charles

Many of us make comparison to Macs because it appears that almost all of us have started our hobby with that brand, me included. My first setup was a C2300 with a 452. Could not believe the sound.

I then started to hear about other gear, read more magazines/reviews, met people who shared my hobby and other gear to listen to, etc

That most of us have started with Macs and then migrated to something else should not be a reflection that we are now Mac bashers. I never will be. I just believe that the sound that I am looking for or like is no longer the sound that Macs make.

I do not know if you have tried other gear with your Wilsons or have always stayed with Macs. If you are happy with that sound, then great. Obviously you have built a great system over the years I have been on AA.

I believe it ok for any of us to express our opinions of what we hear so that others can then take it for what's it worth. Sharing these thoughts I would assume is why AA is here.

Edward

Nicely said! I agree wholeheartedly.

And my setup was the same! C2300, D100, MC452.

[audioguy3107]

Originally Posted by Charles

Marc, you
If you think anybody in their 80's can hear the way they did at age say 30, you are mistaken. If you think anyone in their 80's is at the top of their game the way they were at age say 40, you are mistaken.

Hmmmmm...I think Warren Buffett may disagree with you......physically maybe, but not necessarily in other ways.

I'll chime in here since I've owned Audio Research, McIntosh and D'agostino. As Marc can tell you, I'm a free agent and pretty much have no brand loyalty whatsoever (compared to a lot of audiophiles). Brand loyalty can only shortchange you in this hobby and not allow you to see the benefits of other gear since "there's no way it can be better". It's only natural for people on audio forums to tout one particular brand over another, I wouldn't take offense to it at all. That being said saying that you wouldn't buy D'agostino gear because Dan's in his 80's is silly...I'd take a rock solid veteran with years and years of design experience over an up and comer any day of the week. As far as McIntosh gear goes, I love McIntosh, it's offers fantastic value for the money, rock solid build quality and holds it's value second to none. Now, with that being said, when I took out my Mac gear and put in the Momentum amplifier and preamp, there was no comparison. It made the Mac gear sound muddy, incoherent and downright sloppy. I was also surprised how much quieter the pairing was, I was getting some slight noise from the McIntosh gear that disappeared with the D'agostino amp and pre. Now we're talking about far different price points but there was no question as to which offered the better sound quality and build quality. I can only imagine what the XVX would sound like on a pair of Momentum monoblocks.....it would probably be eye opening!

- Buck

[jpgr4blu]

Hi Charles:
I cannot respond to your statement that some ARC and Dag owners feel a need to compare their gear to Mac gear, presumably in Mac threads. I do not generally read Mac threads so I just don't know. I used to see that approach with 1 or 2 Magico owners on Audiogon who would tirelessly invade Wilson threads and explain why Magico was a better speaker. I strenuously disagree with that proposition and felt that their input was a nuisance.
I do know that D'Agostino makes great sounding gear which is used by a number of Stereophile reviewers and was used by David Wilson in his home system as a solid state alternative to VTL Siegfrieds for tubes. In fact, I never liked Dan's work with Krell but find his work now to be quite spectacular. So, to me, Dan's age is not an issue. Vladimir Lamm also makes great sounding gear although I suspect he is now in his 80s. Don't forget that David Wilson was into his 70s while still designing the brand's speakers and each speaker (except the WP8) was better than the last.
One thing we can agree on though is that you have one excellent audio system. I can certainly understand how you could not ask for more.

[keef]

Originally Posted by audioguy3107

Hmmmmm...I think Warren Buffett may disagree with you......physically maybe, but not necessarily in other ways.

I'll chime in here since I've owned Audio Research, McIntosh and D'agostino. As Marc can tell you, I'm a free agent and pretty much have no brand loyalty whatsoever (compared to a lot of audiophiles). Brand loyalty can only shortchange you in this hobby and not allow you to see the benefits of other gear since "there's no way it can be better". It's only natural for people on audio forums to tout one particular brand over another, I wouldn't take offense to it at all. That being said saying that you wouldn't buy D'agostino gear because Dan's in his 80's is silly...I'd take a rock solid veteran with years and years of design experience over an up and comer any day of the week. As far as McIntosh gear goes, I love McIntosh, it's offers fantastic value for the money, rock solid build quality and holds it's value second to none. Now, with that being said, when I took out my Mac gear and put in the Momentum amplifier and preamp, there was no comparison. It made the Mac gear sound muddy, incoherent and downright sloppy. I was also surprised how much quieter the pairing was, I was getting some slight noise from the McIntosh gear that disappeared with the D'agostino amp and pre. Now we're talking about far different price points but there was no question as to which offered the better sound quality and build quality. I can only imagine what the XVX would sound like on a pair of Momentum monoblocks.....it would probably be eye opening!

- Buck

I heard that combination, Momentums with XVX and DCS digital at JS Audio. Steve was kind enough to give me free reign for a good hour so I listened to a wide range of music. Honestly, the presentation was on the bright side but I got enough to surmise that it was a very special system and to die for combo. One or more components or cables was probably not broken in...my guess is the speakers since they hadn't been there long when I was in the store. I would have loved to hear some vinyl.

The only thing that worries me about Dan and maybe I just don't know is does he have a successor to keep the business going? In case something goes wrong or upgrades/updates which I believe he is already offering.

Jerry

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by audioguy3107

Hmmmmm...I think Warren Buffett may disagree with you......physically maybe, but not necessarily in other ways.

I'll chime in here since I've owned Audio Research, McIntosh and D'agostino. As Marc can tell you, I'm a free agent and pretty much have no brand loyalty whatsoever (compared to a lot of audiophiles). Brand loyalty can only shortchange you in this hobby and not allow you to see the benefits of other gear since "there's no way it can be better". It's only natural for people on audio forums to tout one particular brand over another, I wouldn't take offense to it at all. That being said saying that you wouldn't buy D'agostino gear because Dan's in his 80's is silly...I'd take a rock solid veteran with years and years of design experience over an up and comer any day of the week. As far as McIntosh gear goes, I love McIntosh, it's offers fantastic value for the money, rock solid build quality and holds it's value second to none. Now, with that being said, when I took out my Mac gear and put in the Momentum amplifier and preamp, there was no comparison. It made the Mac gear sound muddy, incoherent and downright sloppy. I was also surprised how much quieter the pairing was, I was getting some slight noise from the McIntosh gear that disappeared with the D'agostino amp and pre. Now we're talking about far different price points but there was no question as to which offered the better sound quality and build quality. I can only imagine what the XVX would sound like on a pair of Momentum monoblocks.....it would probably be eye opening!

- Buck

Great post...

[Charles]

George, thank you for correcting me. I'll just respond to 3107 by saying it's always the same story. First the big disclaimer, I love Mac.... But when I took out my Mac gear and replaced it with Momentums....Wow!!, no comparision....I can only imagine what a pair of Momentum mono blocks would sound like....eye opening etc. 3107, spare me please. You are only making my point. Notice it's not Accuphase, or Boulder, or CJ, or Burmester, or Bryston...but guess what, it's MOMENTUM and Dag!

I knew that someone would chime in with the excuse that, "Well, we all started off with Mac...but now have become enlightened. We have become true audiophiles and have advanced onward."

All very predictable because Mac is the benchmark and always will be against which you feel the need to measure your gear.

You/all have every right to make your comparisons and I appreciate the comments concerning my system. I can tell you that as I have said before, I would not remotely swap my 1.25's for Momentums or Dag pre's or sources in my system. I wouldn't know what to do with my Niagara's and I have 4 of them. I have a system tailored to the Mac sound. I have a lot of experience. It means very little to me personally and shows your inexperience and incompetence to pull a piece out put another piece in and come to the conclusion one sounds better than the other. Surely you are not that naive. Again my system is tailored to get the best sound out of my Mac gear for my ears.

I am glad we are having this discussion because it is an issue that folks need to be aware of. These comments by folks first stating how much they love Mac and how wonderful Mac is, But.....almost always involve AR and Dag aficionados or folks that have compared Momentums or mid level AR's and are stunned by their superiority over Mac.

Now I am not offended, insulted, or anything else. I feel we are having a frank discussion about an issue that has been simmering for a long time. It should be discussed. I am not demeaning AR or Dag but I am stating very clearly I hope, that Dags and AR are not one whit better than McIntosh, in build quality, appearance, sound, or pride of ownership, period!!