Dissapointing outcome comparison Shunyata Triton vs PS Audio P10 regenerator.

[Formerly YB-2]

Perhaps this thread would have been better if posted in the PS Audio as a "positive" rather than here as a "negative".

[DonBattles]

Originally Posted by Formerly YB-2

Perhaps this thread would have been better if posted in the PS Audio as a "positive" rather than here as a "negative".

The thread is what it is. I don't see it as negative. My system, with a dedicated 20 amp line, sounds better with my Talos than without. If someone else were to have a different experience it still doesn't change mine.

[jdandy]

Sound is an individual experience. It is reconstructed in each of our minds in a totally individual way such that no two are exactly alike. Sound is similar to art in that one man's treasure can easily be another man's garbage.

[Glisse]

Very true Dan, and if it were otherwise, there would be little to discuss

[crwilli]

I have no dog in this hunt but read the OP and started wondering why it was posted in the Shunyata forum. While I agree the opinions are valid to share and I like to read these types of comparisons, this might have been better suited in the "General Power Conditioner" forum. IMHO

[beowulf]

I find your comparison results interesting. I recently read a review from Marja and Henk about a product called the Mains Noise Analyser made by Blue Horizon. It is a similar product to the Entech Wideband Noise Analyser in which it sniffs out powerline noise and other power noise issues.

In the review they found that when they plugged the Mains Noise Analyser into the PS10 ~ the PS10 introduced a 60hz hum. For sure the P10 was the culprit as when they compared it to a PS Audio Power Plant Premier (which is their previous version of regnerator) they found the PPP to be much more quiet than the P10.

McGowan exchanged comments with them but could not reason out why the P10 was so noisy, but he did confirm that the P10 did not do any filtering. But the PPP did filter and there was a big difference in sound quality according to Marja and Henk who preferred the PPP much more.

To me it seems that if the P10 was introducing a hum there is no way it would be better performing than even a Shunyata PS8/Defender combo. Well, not unless you like a 60hz mains hum along with your music. Maybe the unit was defective, but I'd like to see another test with a Mains Noise Analyser or Entech type of unit to see if can be repeated.

Review here: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/bluehorizon/1.html

[GrantS]

Thanks for your contribution, Sander. There's no problem with posting opinion and comparison here, that's what the forums are for. I read your comments with interest and appreciate you taking the time to post your result.

We've made Hydra level products for many years now, about 14. I've been the front line for feedback during that time for a great many customers that have had the itch to compare Hydras of all iterations to other products, including those from PS Audio,( including a half-dozen or so with the P10). Obviously, that has occurred in all manner of systems and with varying levels of AC quality. Specific to the P10, we've compared very favorably in the areas of micro-macro dynamics, timing and dimensionality (instrument weight/presence) comparing the v1 Triton. The heavier the load is on the products, in general, the more favorably we've compared. We have replaced those units specifically with Triton v1's before on several occasions that I'm personally aware of, so ascribing your result to a larger truth would be a mistake. That's not to say that there cannot be contexts where the P10 may be preferred, depending on the specifics of the system/power/listeners and set up, but that's not been my experience. You can put that off to homer-ism I suppose, but I'm simply stating what I know.

Over 14 years, Hydras have been installed and compared in countless systems where the quality of the AC is poor, or had no dedicated lines and performed well enough to earn us an exceptional reputation among professionals and consumers alike. In the past, with the ready availability of PS Audio products, these were commonly available for comparisons at all price points, so comparisons and comments, on line and off, from recording professionals and consumers alike, have been many. While your result is worth noting, this was hardly the first time someone has carefully compared our Hydra to a PS10, PS5 and just about every other regenerator, with and without our power cords.

Like Caelin, I am confident recommending comparisons of our products to those from PS Audio based on the feedback we get from those who have compared and from our own comparisons in the field and at shows. That doesn't mean the Hydras will be better in every context, but it does mean they are exceptional products that perform consistently well in the vast majority of systems and in general have done extremely well when compared to PS Audio regenerators. Were that not the case, we wouldn't enjoy the reputation we do. There was a period during the height PS Audio products popularity, where I would venture Hydra comparisons to PS Audio regenerators were talked about consistently on-line and occurred with great regularity.

None of this takes away from or discounts your own comparisons and result, Sander. My point is that you are not the first to perform these kinds of comparisons with Hydra and PS Audio products, or even more expensive Regenerators from other companies like Burmester/Accuphase. Historically, Hydras compare well in these kinds of comparisons, but with so many variables related to systems and listeners, there will never be an absolute consensus.

The reason we recommend system comparisons rather than mixed products is the obvious point-of-view difference design wise and the likelihood of obtaining a consistent, more predictable result. Mixed systems in AC can work, but can also be very unpredictable and require careful consideration, even when changing electronics in a mixed AC system, since some electronics are more sensitive than others to differing levels of AC resistance and reactance.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Grant
Shunyata Research

[cmarin]

GrantS, Thank you for your thoughtful, fair and informative reply. I have often found that the lack of competitor bashing, fair responses to negative forum posts, and qualified praise for its own products is a sign of a company with integrity and excellent performing products.

[Glisse]

Originally Posted by cmarin

GrantS, Thank you for your thoughtful, fair and informative reply. I have often found that the lack of competitor bashing, fair responses to negative forum posts, and qualified praise for its own products is a sign of a company with integrity and excellent performing products.

Hear, hear

[sander]

Thanks everyone, for all your responses.

Some were rather ridiculous ("you should not post negative comments on the Shunyata forum" (?) ) , but most were very interesting though. Because they were based on experience.

I know i was not the first to do this comparison, but it is very hard to find reviews based on direct comparisons.
That, and the reason i was challenged by mister Shunyata himself, should be a good enough reason to post my findings on the Shunyata forum.

One other reason was that a lot of people buy their goods based on reviews and recommendations.
My experience showed that you just never know what a piece of equipment will do in your setup.

Grant said that in his experience the Triton outperforms the P10 a lot of times especially with heavy loads.
My experience was the exact opposite. In fact, the dealer who lend us the Triton, said that a big 400watt amp plus two active speakers was probably just too much for the Triton and that might be the reason why it gave such a poor performance.

What was the real reason it only gave about 40% of what the P10 gave? Who knows?

Maybe my friends house has really poor AC. I really don't know. I only know he has a dedicated AC line.

The Triton has many outlets.
Maybe we used outlets by mere coincidence that were not burned in yet?
Some weeks earlier we switched the pre-amp to a different outlet on the P10. It didn't sound right. A bit constricted in the mid lows.
I guess you only burn in the outlets you use on a power distributor?

Bottom line;
We are all here to learn from each others experiences.
But the reality is that you can only decide to buy a piece of equipment based on your own experience.

Don't think that because a certain brand of powercables perform great in your setup, it automaticly means that their powerdistributor is your best buy.
Don't think because a lot of people likes a certain brand of amplifiers or speakers, that it will work for you.

What i learned from this experience
and all your responses is that i too came too early to a conclusion.
I have to do the same comparison in my own home and in my own set.
Maybe the outcome will be completly reversed and i'll prefer the Triton over the P10.
It sure will be a big surprise.
I guess that's part of this grazy and wonderful passion of ours.

I'll let you know.

Happy listening everyone!
Sander.