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  #21  
Old 01-25-2016, 09:06 PM
Patrick Butler Patrick Butler is offline
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Hi ssbkk,

The distance that you quote is where all the drivers first come into focus. The issue is in being closer than 10ft (it's actually less than that), not further away.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssbkk View Post
Thanks rgbanhari for your insight. I guess the reason I am reluctance is due to the fact that the distance from the speakers to my listening position would be around 10 ft. which is just slightly beyond the recommended distance for the drivers coherency. I will go though the rest of your writings. What is the size of your speaker placement room, if you don't mind me asking.

Krustycat, glad that you find the link useful. I find it refreshing as well.
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  #22  
Old 01-26-2016, 01:16 AM
rghanbari rghanbari is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssbkk View Post
Thanks rgbanhari for your insight. I guess the reason I am reluctance is due to the fact that the distance from the speakers to my listening position would be around 10 ft. which is just slightly beyond the recommended distance for the drivers coherency. I will go though the rest of your writings. What is the size of your speaker placement room, if you don't mind me asking. Krustycat, glad that you find the link useful. I find it refreshing as well.
I'm still spending a lot of time making big changes, but my current speaker positions are (from front of driver):

42" from back wall
95" apart
96" to primary seating position (aka the sofa)
140" to secondary seating position (aka the stool I sit on behind sofa for critical listening)

I can confirm that soundstage at 140" is WAY better than primary position

Still a lot of work to do to play with speaker and furniture positions (this is a random walk for me right now...suggestions/feedback always welcome). Alas, too much sunshine here in SoCal and still a lot of break hours yet to be burned
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  #23  
Old 01-26-2016, 09:18 AM
Patrick Butler Patrick Butler is offline
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Hi rghanbari,

How much toe-in are you using in your particular setup? Getting a 3 dimensional image at 96" isn't an issue with these designs, provided that the speakers are actually focused during the setup at 96" rather than 140".

Best Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America


Quote:
Originally Posted by rghanbari View Post
I'm still spending a lot of time making big changes, but my current speaker positions are (from front of driver):

42" from back wall
95" apart
96" to primary seating position (aka the sofa)
140" to secondary seating position (aka the stool I sit on behind sofa for critical listening)

I can confirm that soundstage at 140" is WAY better than primary position

Still a lot of work to do to play with speaker and furniture positions (this is a random walk for me right now...suggestions/feedback always welcome). Alas, too much sunshine here in SoCal and still a lot of break hours yet to be burned
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  #24  
Old 01-26-2016, 10:32 AM
Venere Venere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
Hi rghanbari, How much toe-in are you using in your particular setup? Getting a 3 dimensional image at 96" isn't an issue with these designs, provided that the speakers are actually focused during the setup at 96" rather than 140". Best Regards, Patrick Butler B&W Group North America
Patrick - With all the usual caveats such as different rooms, different equipment, etc.....are you generally a fan of aiming the speakers directly at the listener or with a little less toe-in? Assuming no major issues with side wall reflections and a pretty standard equilateral triangle setup. I know you have set up a lot of speakers in your career. Just wondered what you consider "standard" if there is such a thing.
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  #25  
Old 01-26-2016, 12:09 PM
Patrick Butler Patrick Butler is offline
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Hi Venere,

A less than directly at the listener, but much more than pointing straight forward. As a general rule, the further apart the more toe-in.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America


Quote:
Originally Posted by Venere View Post
Patrick - With all the usual caveats such as different rooms, different equipment, etc.....are you generally a fan of aiming the speakers directly at the listener or with a little less toe-in? Assuming no major issues with side wall reflections and a pretty standard equilateral triangle setup. I know you have set up a lot of speakers in your career. Just wondered what you consider "standard" if there is such a thing.
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  #26  
Old 01-26-2016, 12:59 PM
rghanbari rghanbari is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
How much toe-in are you using in your particular setup? Getting a 3 dimensional image at 96" isn't an issue with these designs, provided that the speakers are actually focused during the setup at 96" rather than 140".
Thank you Patrick, I haven't spent any time fiddling with toe in yet; I've mainly been playing on distance from side and back wall to get a sense of the room resonances (alas, keeps changing as other furnishings arrive and move around)

I'll experiment with it a bit this weekend
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  #27  
Old 01-26-2016, 01:48 PM
Venere Venere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
Hi Venere, A less than directly at the listener, but much more than pointing straight forward. As a general rule, the further apart the more toe-in. Regards, Patrick B&W Group North America
thanks Patrick.
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  #28  
Old 01-30-2016, 01:43 AM
Iostream Iostream is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
Hi ssbkk,

The distance that you quote is where all the drivers first come into focus. The issue is in being closer than 10ft (it's actually less than that), not further away.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America
What exactly is the closest position for a focused image of the 802d3? What is it for the 803? Curious as I am looking to upgrade my mastering set up and I don't know that I want to move my desk too far back.
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  #29  
Old 02-07-2016, 07:26 AM
ssbkk ssbkk is offline
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Thanks rghanbari and Patrick for your advice. I have just placed an order for a pair of 802D3 and a pair of 804D3 for different rooms. I will use McIntosh C1100 and MC2301 for the 802D3 and MA6700 (200wpc) for the 804D3. I have learned a lot from your posts and will try to experiment with my current 804D2 placements.

I am actually looking for a new integrated amp for the 804D3. Would appreciate any advice based on your experience as to which should be on the short list for a good match with the 804D3.

Theoretically, people advises me to stay away from power amp that uses output transformers due to damping factor for speakers that has impedance and phases that is difficult to drive. However, there seems to be synergy between the McIntosh and B&W somehow. What would be the other choices that I should explore? I live in a country which home audition is not possible, so I have to rely on feedbacks and reviews.

Thanks
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  #30  
Old 02-07-2016, 07:14 PM
Patrick Butler Patrick Butler is offline
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Hi Iostream,

802D3 and 803D3 converge at roughly the same distance, which is about 9'6". At that point and beyond, everything is converged.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iostream View Post
What exactly is the closest position for a focused image of the 802d3? What is it for the 803? Curious as I am looking to upgrade my mastering set up and I don't know that I want to move my desk too far back.
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