Realistic power requirements for the Confidence Series ....

[CDLehner]

Tvih, I don't proclaim this to be an absolute truth; all I can do is share my experience.

I toiled in amps in the 125-225 wps range...and they all sounded quite nice. I've had my Belles 150a Hot-Rod for about 3 years; and while I've switched a LOT of other pieces in and out, I was quite content.

But all I can say...is with these Special 25s...the power of the 2500a pushes them around, and nets a better sound than the old Belles.

Now, some say "well, that's C-J for ya...quality amp"; and no doubt, it's a great design...but David Belles is no slouch IMO. Power is not so much just about volume, but more about transients...giving you true dynamics...and not clipping. As the late, great JGH said "playing loud, without hurting your ears"...lol.

The flaw I see in your argument...and many, who say the same...is what are you comparing against? OK...your 10w tri-path sounds fine; good even. And maybe the 40w Puccini even better than that? So whose to say my C-J 2500a wouldn't sound AMAZING with your C1s?

My bet is it would. This is not to fight; no fighting at AA (as opposed to that other forum, where you can't say anything without rubbing someone the wrong way). I've just never been able to make judgments, without having something to stack up against. I can't rate gear in a vacuum; all I can do is say "this is better than that"...and decide what I can afford, and how much better is it worth.

Again...I don't know that more power equals better sound. As Dyn folks say...it's not power, it's current; and evidently tubes are a different animal. As I said, all I can do is tell you my powerful, 2500a is yummy.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by CDLehner

As I said, all I can do is tell you my powerful, 2500a is yummy.

And that's a good thing!

Regarding power, it depends on so many different things, so much of which are independent, e.g. size of the room, efficiency of the speakers, listening preferences, etc. Certainly the big 3" voice coils on Dyns need a lot of current to get them going...there is some inertia there. One the things that CD didn't mention about Belles amps, but I'm confident he knows, is that they provide very high damping factors, which can be very useful for controllling the large voice coils on Dynaudio mid/woofs.

Per Tvih's comments, I remember reading the C4 review in ToneAudio about driving C4s with, IIRC, was a 3-watt Decware flea amp, so it is possible to get SETs and flea-watt amps to work with them. OTOH, I do agree with CD that for some speakers, like his S25s, that to control that big Evidence woofer, having some serious horsepower is very advantageous. And as a result, CD is clearly is getting better speaker performance with his higher horsepower MF2500A than with the small-block Belles "half a hot rod". What I'm glad about is he's seeing what his S25 are capable of, and getting an introduction to some nice Conrad-Johnson gear in the process; the two can work together very synergistically.

Also agree with the comment that the C1s probably need more power than the larger C2 or C4 as the efficiency is lower due to the smaller cabinet volume
(smaller cabinet volume=higher "spring preload" of the air inside=lower efficiency).

[tvih]

Originally Posted by CDLehner

The flaw I see in your argument...and many, who say the same...is what are you comparing against? OK...your 10w tri-path sounds fine; good even. And maybe the 40w Puccini even better than that? So whose to say my C-J 2500a wouldn't sound AMAZING with your C1s?

But the relevant question is - would the improvement be simply because of the added wattage potential, or because of something else? My guess would be the latter. Just like with the Puccini vs the tripath. The former used to cost around 800 euros new, the latter costs around 10% of that - as such, for sure the Puccini uses better components all around, and is of course designed very differently. The added wattage factor should only come into play when such volumes are used that it is needed, while many other things can alter the output quality. Even factoring in transients, according to my watt meter the at-the-wall wattage of the tripath never goes even anywhere near 20W (it records max/peak wattage as well as current wattage) at comfortable listening volumes, and no detectable clipping occurs. So there's no wattage shortage per se at least for my usage.

Of course it's not exactly as simple as this in theory, but then I've always tended to go more with my personal practical experiences over theory, less headache that way

[CDLehner]

Originally Posted by tvih

But the relevant question is - would the improvement be simply because of the added wattage potential, or because of something else? My guess would be the latter. Just like with the Puccini vs the tripath. The former used to cost around 800 euros new, the latter costs around 10% of that - as such, for sure the Puccini uses better components all around, and is of course designed very differently. The added wattage factor should only come into play when such volumes are used that it is needed, while many other things can alter the output quality. Even factoring in transients, according to my watt meter the at-the-wall wattage of the tripath never goes even anywhere near 20W (it records max/peak wattage as well as current wattage) at comfortable listening volumes, and no detectable clipping occurs. So there's no wattage shortage per se at least for my usage.

Of course it's not exactly as simple as this in theory, but then I've always tended to go more with my personal practical experiences over theory, less headache that way

As PC said...lots of factors; and I never try to pass myself off as an expert on such things. Plus...like the sign says...I listen LOUD!

[Face]

Joe, Manley makes a couple of tube mono-blocks that would fit the bill nicely.

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by Face

Joe, Manley makes a couple of tube mono-blocks that would fit the bill nicely.

Waaaaaaaay too many tubes and too much heat for my room. As much as I loved them, I was finally made an offer I could not refuse. They are not in the sig. anymore . Maybe if I save some money on the Dyns., I can finally get that 909 mk5 or dual mono 911's.

[Face]

I know, just busting your chops a bit.

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by Face

I know, just busting your chops a bit.

Manley makes GREAT gear, but it's a commitment.

[hkval]

JOE: Is your current Avatar a reflection of your current desire???? C2 or BUST????

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by hkval

JOE: Is your current Avatar a reflection of your current desire???? C2 or BUST????

Hi Howard,

I'm just trying it on to see how it fits . In all likely-hood, I think the C2 Sig is where I think I will end up. I'll be making some phone calls next week and I'll see what happens.