MX150 vs competition, and versus preamps?

[Audio 1]

Originally Posted by jeffkad

Appreciate the suggestion, but I'd really like to keep this thread about the mx150.

Just make sure that any 2-channel pre-amps you consider have a home theater by-pass feature.

[allen_bh]

I'll bite. The MX150 is by far the bet pre/pro I've owned -- yet. That said, I think there's still room for improvement. The DAC sounds pretty damn good, and Room Perfect is waaay better than anything else I've tried (I've owned quite a few - The Anthem D2V, Marantz 7005, 8003, Denon's A1HDCI, a Classe SSP 800, and oh yeah an older lexicon, and a few others even).

I'll just list the pro's and cons as I see them:
Pros:
1. Room Perfect.
2. DAC implementation is A+
3. Versatility - Has tons of options for voicing, etc.
4. Compatability - I've had zero issues with the HDMI syncing or handshake. While this sounds like a gimme, it's not. I've had tons of other pre/pros that don't do this well.
5. Sound Quality. The MX150 sounds better than any other pre/pro I've heard. That said there are better, but I've just not demo'ed them yet.

Cons:
1. Digitizes all inputs.
2. A Bit Older Tech - Examples: a). For almost $13K (retail) the DAC is now getting long in the tooth, b) Lack of an iPad app to control the unit, though you can use the Web Interface which isn't terrible.
3. Lack of an HDMI scaler.
4. Reliability - I know this may get people's dander up, but the fact is that the MX150 has had reliability issues. Heck, mine arrived DOA and had to be repaired by McIntosh in Binghampton. For the money I paid, I think the right thing to do would have been to send me a brand new replacement as I owned the unit for less than a week before hooking it up and finding out it was DOA.
4a - McIntosh - Yes, I said it. McIntosh is now becoming a "con". Their support is either awesome or nonexistent. Another example is that they are inconsistent in terms of engineering -- you get some other company's design with McIntosh improvements when you buy one of their pre/pros. Don't believe me, do the research on the 150 and the 121, they're not McIntosh original designs (even though they are quite nice units).

[allen_bh]

Originally Posted by HiFiGuy528

For the price of one MX150 you can get a Denon AV pre and a McIntosh C48/C50.

I owned the C48 and it digitizes all inputs unfortunately. So does the C50. For me that's a deal breaker since the DAC doesn't sound that good. If you have a good separate DAC, you're better off getting a fully analog pre like the C500 or C1000 (or some other manufacturer's).

[jeffkrag]

Bryan, thanks. Exactly the kind of input I was looking for! Wow, I did not know you also had a Classe SSP800? That is one of my finalists if I go upscale on the processor. So you liked the mx150 better? Do you mind making a comparison between the two?

I am also considering the Krell. Looks like a great unit. More to come.

[Ian]

Bryan, thanks for a really useful analysis of MX150 pros and cons. Where can I learn more about the origins of the MX121 and MX150/151 designs? Do you suspect that the MX151 is simply a software upgraded MX150 or is it more than this?

Ian

[MikeSp]

Originally Posted by Ian

Bryan, thanks for a really useful analysis of MX150 pros and cons. Where can I learn more about the origins of the MX121 and MX150/151 designs? Do you suspect that the MX151 is simply a software upgraded MX150 or is it more than this?

Ian

As per Chuck Hinton -- there is no difference between the MX151 and the MX150 WITH the f/w upgrade.

His answer was in response to my question about the potential for sending in an MX150 for a new HDMI video board to be upgraded at user expense so that it would match the MX151.

MikeSp

[jeffkrag]

Originally Posted by allen_bh

I owned the C48 and it digitizes all inputs unfortunately. So does the C50. For me that's a deal breaker since the DAC doesn't sound that good. If you have a good separate DAC, you're better off getting a fully analog pre like the C500 or C1000 (or some other manufacturer's).

Bryan, just re-read this. Are you sure about this? I think this only applies to mx150. I believe the C48/50 is a true preamp on its analog inputs, although it will allow tone/EQ. It digitizes (DA conversion) only on its digital inputs,since it has internal dacs.

[Franklmu]

Originally Posted by allen_bh

I'll bite. The MX150 is by far the bet pre/pro I've owned -- yet. That said, I think there's still room for improvement. The DAC sounds pretty damn good, and Room Perfect is waaay better than anything else I've tried (I've owned quite a few - The Anthem D2V, Marantz 7005, 8003, Denon's A1HDCI, a Classe SSP 800, and oh yeah an older lexicon, and a few others even).

I'll just list the pro's and cons as I see them:
Pros:
1. Room Perfect.
2. DAC implementation is A+
3. Versatility - Has tons of options for voicing, etc.
4. Compatability - I've had zero issues with the HDMI syncing or handshake. While this sounds like a gimme, it's not. I've had tons of other pre/pros that don't do this well.
5. Sound Quality. The MX150 sounds better than any other pre/pro I've heard. That said there are better, but I've just not demo'ed them yet.

Cons:
1. Digitizes all inputs.
2. A Bit Older Tech - Examples: a). For almost $13K (retail) the DAC is now getting long in the tooth, b) Lack of an iPad app to control the unit, though you can use the Web Interface which isn't terrible.
3. Lack of an HDMI scaler.
4. Reliability - I know this may get people's dander up, but the fact is that the MX150 has had reliability issues. Heck, mine arrived DOA and had to be repaired by McIntosh in Binghampton. For the money I paid, I think the right thing to do would have been to send me a brand new replacement as I owned the unit for less than a week before hooking it up and finding out it was DOA.
4a - McIntosh - Yes, I said it. McIntosh is now becoming a "con". Their support is either awesome or nonexistent. Another example is that they are inconsistent in terms of engineering -- you get some other company's design with McIntosh improvements when you buy one of their pre/pros. Don't believe me, do the research on the 150 and the 121, they're not McIntosh original designs (even though they are quite nice units).

Good job, but in relation with point 5, i don't understand why it is a pb that the mx150 digitizes all inputs.

Frank

[jeffkrag]

Since I'm too impatient for the next batch of prepros that will hopefully solve my dilemma (great analog, great dacs, topnotch auto RC/EQ, maybe even remote-accessible or faceplate tone controls), I do hope to get enough input on other processors to decide which way to go in interim. Truthfully, if the mx150 offered a pure analog passthrough, I think it would be game over for me. As for the others...

The SSP800 has been universally acclaimed, with absolutely no negative opinions. In addition to great sound via both digital and analog inputs, it has a pretty good manual EQ to at least help with room conditions. This one seems like a no-brainer if in any doubt on others.

I have been reading up on the Krell S1200, and it is very intriguing. Supposedly has a superb analog section competitive with top flight preamps, and also has a very nice manual EQ setup. On the digital side, it uses (I think) previous version ESS Sabre dacs (9008?), which should be pretty darn good along with a Krell-worthy implementation around them. Not as much written about the S1200, but there is an awesome review on Tech Radar, and a few users have posted very favorable reviews on various forums. I think a few here have it, including maybe Lu Jr? I did however read at least one not so good review, an Italian poster who said it was no better than his old Krell HTS 7.1. Another poster said something similar. So while mostly extremely positive, the Krell has had some detractors. Hard to figure this one out.

The new Bryston SP3 I just don't get. I'm sure it is an awesome sounding piece, but it seems to offer nothing (save "future" asynchronous USB) that distinguishes it from its main competition, and in fact seems to offer LESS: no RC or even EQ of any kind, and no video for those that care. Unless in the unlikely event it sounds noticeably better than the Classe, the Mac mx150,or the Krell, what's the point? To match your other Bryston gear?

I look forward to comparisons of these processors.

On a side note, I am more and more liking the idea of the C50 tone controls though, as I listen to a lot of older CDs that could really use some help. The biggest downside of my audio upgrade path (other than $$$, lol!) has been the accentuation of poor or mediocre recordings. The difference in recording quality from cd to cd is sooo much more noticeable that it's distracting (as much as the increase in sq on good recordings is spectacular). It would be so nice to apply some fixin' to these CDs so I can enjoy them again instead of lamenting how bad they now sound.

Decisions, decisions...

[jeffkrag]

Originally Posted by Franklmu

Good job, but in relation with point 5, i don't understand why it is a pb that the mx150 digitizes all inputs.

Frank

Because you may have a better dac in your cdp, etc, and you can't utilize it with the mx150. The world of dacs keeps improving, and the mx150 locks you out of these improvements by limiting you to its dacs.