With Or Without A Preamp...

[essjay]

Originally Posted by thesaint519

Sure, there are an endless amount of opinions. After all, opinions are like a--holes, everybody has one. And without controversy, it's all good information and presents value on varying levels. I'm hoping to hear, however, from someone who has tried it both ways, and what their conclusions are. Anyone? There's gotta be someone or two among us who can help me.

Up until reading this thread last week, i had been running my M51 dac as a pre/dac into a power amp and it got me thinking so i dragged my pre out and connected it back up after a 4 month break and boy i am glad i did, even though my setup at that time already sounded very respectable, adding the pre added something more to the presentation and i like it I thought it might have been the amp i was using so i swapped to another amp and same deal

it also added more volume for some reason which I do not understand, perhaps the M51 does not have enough voltage or incorrect voltage for the amps i have to choose from. Without the pre I was able to take the M51 volume to 10 (0 been the highest on it before it attenuates itself) no problems but with the pre in the chain and the M51 set to locked volume, i cant go past half on the pre, in fact half it too loud for where i currently live unless its for a sneaky blast for a minute or so.

I am not well versed in the technical nitty gritty so i am not able to use audio terms but in my case it does indeed make a difference and in a good way however like all things audio related i think it will be system dependent so my advice is to test with and with out and see what your ears tell you.

Note: my sources are a MacAir connected via USB and a CDP connected via coax to the DAC and a Squeezebox Touch connected by RCA to the Pre.

Hope this helps and best of luck with your journey

[1KW]

I went from a Mcintosh C220 pre amp to using the variable output of my MCD500 for awhile and there was a "difference" . I was running the MCD500/MC501's as a fully balanced system and while there was a lot detail and quiet background there was something missing compared to when I added the C2300 pre amp back that replaced the c220. The C2300 added a "lushness" or warmth back to the music while at the same time not losing detail. The pre amp also gave me tone controls and a excellent MC phono stage which allowed me to enjoy and build upon my vinyl collection. If you can't swing a pre amp at first use the variable output of your cdp and wait until you can afford a good pre amp.

[Allan W.]

Twice I’ve tried the no pre-amp route. Once back around 1990. I used a “Mod Squad LineDrive” passive device. It was very sterile. I tried again in early part of this century, well kinda. I used a Adcom GFP 750 full function pre-amp which has a passive mode switch. The same results. The Adcom 750 was known as a very benign device adding very little coloration yet providing good functionality. From there I did a complete 180 and jumped head first into tubes and all that lush coloration, BIG Smile!

On topic: Not long ago I sold a pair of VTL 300 mono blocks. A tire kicker came by the house and wanted to test drive them. Not wanting to deal with my racked gear I connected my iPhone/iTunes directly to the amps. WOW it sounded pretty darn good.

[thesaint519]

Originally Posted by essjay

Up until reading this thread last week, i had been running my M51 dac as a pre/dac into a power amp and it got me thinking so i dragged my pre out and connected it back up after a 4 month break and boy i am glad i did, even though my setup at that time already sounded very respectable, adding the pre added something more to the presentation and i like it I thought it might have been the amp i was using so i swapped to another amp and same deal it also added more volume for some reason which I do not understand, perhaps the M51 does not have enough voltage or incorrect voltage for the amps i have to choose from. Without the pre I was able to take the M51 volume to 10 (0 been the highest on it before it attenuates itself) no problems but with the pre in the chain and the M51 set to locked volume, i cant go past half on the pre, in fact half it too loud for where i currently live unless its for a sneaky blast for a minute or so. I am not well versed in the technical nitty gritty so i am not able to use audio terms but in my case it does indeed make a difference and in a good way however like all things audio related i think it will be system dependent so my advice is to test with and with out and see what your ears tell you. Note: my sources are a MacAir connected via USB and a CDP connected via coax to the DAC and a Squeezebox Touch connected by RCA to the Pre. Hope this helps and best of luck with your journey

Here's something of a revelation: for the last several years, I've been running my dCS Purcell/Delius directly into the Lamm M1.2 hybrid amps. It sounds revelatory. But I never really listen at concert levels. In fact, I don't turn it up very much at all. I usually listen at just above typical conversation levels. I've always been MORE than pleased. All the traditional superlatives are appropriate for my system IMHO. Until... So tonight, I decided to turn up the system a little more than typical. Boy, was I surprised. The clarity and spatial information seemingly grew exponentially. Then I remembered what someone here said. That is, if I remember correctly, I should expect to lose resolution as I turn the volume down due to the digital volume control. I NEED A LAMM L2 Preamp - NOW!

[jdandy]

Ray.......I came to that same conclusion after a number of attempts to like digital players and DAC's driving my power amps directly. I much prefer my systems with a preamp in the signal path.

[thesaint519]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Ray.......I came to that same conclusion after a number of attempts to like digital players and DAC's driving my power amps directly. I much prefer my systems with a preamp in the signal path.

This is a never ending journey with plateaus of discovery from time to time. I'm just glad to know that I'm still moving forward. Another step toward audio nirvana .

[jazzvinsky]

IMHO, there is always a preamp elsewhere in the chain : either in the source either in the amp either the preamp itself of course.

So the debate would be "with or without a dedicate preamp". I personally think a preamp allows the amp work optimally, the sound is much less stressed or soft. From the output of a source, the sound is in general more accurate, fast but it sounds harder.

From a pratical point of view, a dedicate preamp allows more connexions, and protects the speakers from blowing (e.g. the volume is set at maximum level)

[thesaint519]

Originally Posted by jazzvinski

IMHO, there is always a preamp elsewhere in the chain : either in the source either in the amp either the preamp itself of course. So the debate would be "with or without a dedicate preamp". I personally think a preamp allows the amp work optimally, the sound is much less stressed or soft. From the output of a source, the sound is in general more accurate, fast but it sounds harder. From a pratical point of view, a dedicate preamp allows more connexions, and protects the speakers from blowing (e.g. the volume is set at maximum level)

Good point. A preamp is a must, irrespective of where it's located. That makes sense. My former preamp was my dCS Delius. But since adding a "dedicated" analog preamp, my paradigm is forever changed. And I don't think I'll be going back or the foreseeable future.