Road Rage+Firearms=Big Problems

[W9TR]

An armed society is (should be) a very polite society.

[scirica]

Originally Posted by W9TR

An armed society is (should be) a very polite society.

Not sure that's true when you factor in the collective IQ of this society.

[pete6737]

Originally Posted by jdandy

I have been taught by people much wiser than me that when you carry concealed your behavior should be even more non-confrontational than otherwise might be standard behavior. Carrying a concealed weapon does not give us police powers, and I don't want them. Only life threatening situations demand the use of deadly force, and then only to end the threat. The aggressors in the videos above are morons.

Right on. Carrying a firearm comes with a massive responsibility. Many concealed weapon courses do not stress this enough. Most people with concealed firearm permits are lawful. Very few get caught up in nonsense. Almost all homicides in metro areas are from people who have stolen guns and are carrying illegally. The problem I see is that, while a person that may qualify for a permit today, there's no way to re check a persons mental health 5-10 years later. Unstable gun owners have caused a lot of problems for law enforcement.

[Cohibaman]

When I took my concealed carry course, the instructor asked a number of questions about hypothetical situation and how you would react. One of the questions was, "After pumping gas, you walk up to the convenience store to pay. Before you open the door and enter, you see one customer pointing a handgun at another customer while the the clerk watches. What do you do?"

After giving our answers (The correct answers by the way), he told us a story about a woman in one of his previous classes, who was very adamant about going in and shooting the guy with the gun. The instructor went through many iterations explaining to her why that was a bad idea, and why she should just become a witness and call 911. He finally called every instructor in the state to make sure that she never gets her concealed carry permit!

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by Cohibaman

When I took my concealed carry course, the instructor asked a number of questions about hypothetical situation and how you would react. One of the questions was, "After pumping gas, you walk up to the convenience store to pay. Before you open the door and enter, you see one customer pointing a handgun at another customer while the the clerk watches. What do you do?"

After giving our answers (The correct answers by the way), he told us a story about a woman in one of his previous classes, who was very adamant about going in and shooting the guy with the gun. The instructor went through many iterations explaining to her why that was a bad idea, and why she should just become a witness and call 911. He finally called every instructor in the state to make sure that she never gets her concealed carry permit!

Mike.......In my opinion, this instructor abused his position by making those calls to other concealed carry instructors. He took it upon himself to defame this woman who simply needed additional guidance and instruction. He has put himself in jeopardy of facing a defamation of character lawsuit by attempting to deny this woman the right to carry a concealed weapon. There are plenty of gungho people who simply need additional attention at the training level to help them become aware of the error of that type of thinking. That, in and of itself, is no reason to actively engage in attempting to deny a law abiding citizen their lawful right to a concealed carry permit. I wonder how many other concealed carry students he has passed who are equally gungho but kept it to themselves. How would he know? It's his business to give the class, not to be a judge of who is worthy and who is not.

By making this admission before another class of students this instructor has further defamed this woman, not to mention creating a room full of witnesses to support a lawsuit against him should she become aware of his behavior and decide to seek restitution. Those witnesses include you now that you have documented the instructors admission here. Personally, I hope she does find out this person has attempted to deny her rights by defaming her. It would serve him right for her to sue him. That instructor is just that, an instructor, not the keeper of the castle. He is probably still telling that story to bolster his own ego in front of his classes. His actions were/are totally out of line.

[Cohibaman]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Mike.......In my opinion, this instructor abused his position by making those calls to other concealed carry instructors. He took it upon himself to defame this woman who simply needed additional guidance and instruction. He has put himself in jeopardy of facing a defamation of character lawsuit by attempting to deny this woman the right to carry a concealed weapon. There are plenty of gungho people who simply need additional attention at the training level to help them become aware of the error of that type of thinking. That, in and of itself, is no reason to actively engage in attempting to deny a law abiding citizen their lawful right to a concealed carry permit. I wonder how many other concealed carry students he has passed who are equally gungho but kept it to themselves. How would he know? It's his business to give the class, not to be a judge of who is worthy and who is not. By making this admission before another class of students this instructor has further defamed this woman, not to mention creating a room full of witnesses to support a lawsuit against him should she become aware of his behavior and decide to seek restitution. Those witnesses include you now that you have documented the instructors admission here. Personally, I hope she does find out this person has attempted to deny her rights by defaming her. It would serve him right for her to sue him. That instructor is just that, an instructor, not the keeper of the castle. He is probably still telling that story to bolster his own ego in front of his classes. His actions were/are totally out of line.

Dan,

I hear what you're saying, I absolutely do. I condensed and cleaned up the story quite a bit. If what he told me is only half true, trust me.....you do not want this woman touching a firearm let alone carrying one.

[jdandy]

Mike.......There is no telling how much embellishment the instructor added to his story to make it a "shocking" tale. If you did not witness the actual event then you have no clue about the authenticity of the instructors story. If what he said he did afterward is true, his actions are equally scary thinking he can deny a person's right to self protection based on his personal opinion. And lets be perfectly clear, just because a person does not possess a concealed carry permit does not mean they cannot have a weapon. In many states it is legal to carry a handgun in vehicle's your glove box or center console, a lock box, or in the trunk without the need for a concealed carry permit. If you can retrieve a weapon with one single move, that is considered concealed. If it requires two distinct moves or more to retrieve a weapon it is considered stored.

My point being, this instructor hasn't done anything to keep this woman from possessing a handgun. If she can pass the Federal background check required when she fills out Form 4473, the Firearms Transaction Record required to be filled out when any person purchases a firearm from a Federal Firearms License (FFL) holder or dealer, then she can purchase a handgun or rifle. There is no requirement that a person must also possess a concealed carry permit to purchase a firearm. This instructor has one job, to pass or not pass a person taking his concealed carry class. He has no right to do what he said he did which was to assume he had some type of authority to keep this woman from attempting to pass the concealed carry class in another location. The defamation of character action is in addition to his conspiracy to deny her legal rights based on his personal assumptions and actions thereafter.

[KMC45]

One customer pointing a gun at another customer could be an undercover cop trying to stop a robbery, wanting to walk in and shoot them might not be a great idea.

For any of you that carries a gun go and get some really good handgun training, not just from the local CCW guy. Then get some simunition training, your eyes will be opened.

[Cohibaman]

Originally Posted by KMC45

One customer pointing a gun at another customer could be an undercover cop trying to stop a robbery, wanting to walk in and shoot them might not be a great idea.

That's exactly the scenario he presented after we all gave our answers (and the exact point he argued with her). Bottom line, call 911 and be a witness as long as you are safe doing so.

[pete6737]

It's been proven when ordinary citizens are placed in situations that a law enforcement officer could encounter, the citizens nearly always over react and shoot when it's a non shoot situation. Training with the weapon coupled with common sense is paramount. In Florida, a person can use deadly force to protect their life or someone else's. Misidentification of a suspect or situation will be a life changing event for all involved. Charges, lawsuits, etc... better know your situation before firing a round.