What would be your advice for building a system for the first time?

[ChrisAZ]

When I returned to the audio hobby after a couple of decades away, I found myself relearning much that I had known before and learning afresh about new technologies, products and manufacturers that had come on to the scene. I also found myself making many of the same expensive mistakes I made in the past – buying components somewhat willy nilly before I had retuned my ear and remembered what I preferred in music reproduction. I had no plan and it showed. It’s also much more difficult to self-educate now than it was 3 decades ago because there are far fewer bricks and mortar stores where you can audition equipment (much less try it at home), although there are new tools available (like the internet) that make the process somewhat less daunting. I’ve now developed more of a plan and am now more proactive than reactive in adding and subtracting components.

So if you had a close friend who wanted to build a competent high end system from scratch for the first time, who didn’t have unlimited resources and cared more about sound quality than bling, aside from telling them to adopt your tastes and copy your system what guidance would you give them? Go to concerts and clubs and listen to lots of live music? Start by investing more on the source or speakers than other components? Try to achieve balance in all the components? Vinyl vs. digital? Tubes vs. SS? As I read the comments on this forum I’ve noticed all sorts of taste in components but also all sorts of approaches to system building. So what would your advice be?

[jdandy]

Chris.......The first thing I would instruct anyone building a quality sound system for the first time is to realize in advance that everyone who offers advice is biased. Each of us, myself included, tends to stir others in a direction that we find satisfying. Advice can be helpful but nothing replaces personal experience.

The second advice I would offer is to establish a budget. Once that is done, double it. That's just the way it is in this hobby. Everything costs more than you originally think.

[ChrisAZ]

Originally Posted by jdandy

The second advice I would offer is to establish a budget. Once that is done, double it. That's just the way it is in this hobby. Everything costs more than you originally think.

Ain't that the truth - triple it may even be more accurate.

[cmalak]

Chris...my advice for a neophyte is first educate themselves first on what the different components of a system are (Robert Harley's Intro to High End Audio book is a good place to start) and to also learn what the terms used to describe audio performance mean (again RH's book has a glossary so does Stereophile website). Mastering the basic language used by the user and reviewer community is key. At the same time, have them take out a subscription of TAS and Stereophile and let them read it for 3 months. Range of products, terminology, etc...all starts to seep in.

With phase I out of the way (1-3 months depending on how curious, anal retentive, detail-oriented the person is will determine length of this phase), I would then, as Dan said, have the person decide on what is the maximum allowable budget they feel they can put up. If they can afford $20K but feel they only want to spend $10K because they are not sure, etc...tell them to spend the $20K (do it right the first time...the incremental method ends up costing a lot more when all is said is done).

With budget defined, I would ask them what software they already have. As that will determine priorities on where to spend on sources. If they have 5000 CDs and 0 vinyl, then the source is clear (digital player/transport with an accessible digital input so that PC/music server audio is also an option or a DAC/digital streamer if CDs are already digitized, etc...). Obviously, if person has vinyl and CDs ir digital downloads then a mix of the two and so on. With that figured out, phase 2 is the most fun and the phase in which I learnt the most and developed my sense of what to listen for and that is literally a 2-3 months of auditioning gear at bricks and mortar dealers. In Phase 2a (first couple of weeks or month), I would visit the available dealers in the locale, assuming there is more than one, and tell the dealer you are just starting out and this is your first system and your budget is $x and it needs to have the following sources, and here is my interest in music, and where the system will likely reside (common or dedicated room), etc... See what the dealer puts together and listen. Ask the dealer for their rationale for choosing the components and speakers that they did. Ask the dealer what one should listen for when auditioning a system. This phase also separates the chaff from the wheat in terms of determining which dealers really are want your business and are customer-service oriented. In this phase, one will start being able to develop biases/likes/dislikes. Remember the systems/components that drew you into the music emotionally and those that didn't.

Once Phase 2a is done, Phase 2b is another month or two of winnowing down the list of components one is interested in, doing more research online (reviews and forums), and going back to dealer(s) asking to listen to specific systems you have put together.

Repeat and rinse until you come up with the system of your choice.

Major caveat: if one does not have any local bricks and mortar dealers, then Phases 2a/b will have to be combines and compressed and achieved by scheduling dealer visits in advance when on business or vacation trips to a location where B&M dealers are available.

But if Phases 2a/b (i.e., demoing and listening for yourself) are not done, then no matter how much research one does, I believe any system you put together sight unseen and unheard is a crapshoot.

Sorry for the lengthy description but that was my process 7 years ago and it's probably one of the most fun times I had in this hobby.

[ChrisAZ]

Cyryl - Great advice! Unfortunately I think a lot of people want instant gratification and would skimp on Phases 2a/b (I know I have at times) which can result in costly mistakes. Part of my reason for this thread is to help ease (lure) new people into this hobby and to give them some guidance to smooth out the process. Your advice is spot on.

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by ChrisAZ

Cyryl - Great advice! Unfortunately I think a lot of people want instant gratification and would skimp on Phases 2a/b (I know I have at times) which can result in costly mistakes. Part of my reason for this thread is to help ease (lure) new people into this hobby and to give them some guidance to smooth out the process. Your advice is spot on.

I second that. The Robert Harley book that Cyril mentions is a GREAT source for anyone that wants to get into this hobby. And of course AA is another great source.

I think another few tidbits are:

1. You can build a quality system on a smaller budget. It won't be legendary, but it will certainly provide musical satisfaction. The point is, you don't have to be rich. Look at the $5k system that E just put together with LS50's! I bet that sounds great.

2. Everything matters. Each little tweak, every inch your speakers are toed in or out will make a difference, and it's up to you to leave no stone unturned!

3. Don't get so caught up in the system that you forget the music. Keep your eye on the prize - enjoying your favorite music in a way that moves you.

[cmalak]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

I second that. The Robert Harley book that Cyril mentions is a GREAT source for anyone that wants to get into this hobby. And of course AA is another great source.

I think another few tidbits are:

1. You can build a quality system on a smaller budget. It won't be legendary, but it will certainly provide musical satisfaction. The point is, you don't have to be rich. Look at the $5k system that E just put together with LS50's! I bet that sounds great.

2. Everything matters. Each little tweak, every inch your speakers are toed in or out will make a difference, and it's up to you to leave no stone unturned!

3. Don't get so caught up in the system that you forget the music. Keep your eye on the prize - enjoying your favorite music in a way that moves you.

A big +1 to all of these points

[kfr01]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Chris...my advice for a neophyte is first educate themselves first on what the different components of a system are (Robert Harley's Intro to High End Audio book is a good place to start) and to also learn what the terms used to describe audio performance mean (again RH's book has a glossary so does Stereophile website). Mastering the basic language used by the user and reviewer community is key. At the same time, have them take out a subscription of TAS and Stereophile and let them read it for 3 months. Range of products, terminology, etc...all starts to seep in.

With phase I out of the way (1-3 months depending on how curious, anal retentive, detail-oriented the person is will determine length of this phase), I would then, as Dan said, have the person decide on what is the maximum allowable budget they feel they can put up. If they can afford $20K but feel they only want to spend $10K because they are not sure, etc...tell them to spend the $20K (do it right the first time...the incremental method ends up costing a lot more when all is said is done).

With budget defined, I would ask them what software they already have. As that will determine priorities on where to spend on sources. If they have 5000 CDs and 0 vinyl, then the source is clear (digital player/transport with an accessible digital input so that PC/music server audio is also an option or a DAC/digital streamer if CDs are already digitized, etc...). Obviously, if person has vinyl and CDs ir digital downloads then a mix of the two and so on. With that figured out, phase 2 is the most fun and the phase in which I learnt the most and developed my sense of what to listen for and that is literally a 2-3 months of auditioning gear at bricks and mortar dealers. In Phase 2a (first couple of weeks or month), I would visit the available dealers in the locale, assuming there is more than one, and tell the dealer you are just starting out and this is your first system and your budget is $x and it needs to have the following sources, and here is my interest in music, and where the system will likely reside (common or dedicated room), etc... See what the dealer puts together and listen. Ask the dealer for their rationale for choosing the components and speakers that they did. Ask the dealer what one should listen for when auditioning a system. This phase also separates the chaff from the wheat in terms of determining which dealers really are want your business and are customer-service oriented. In this phase, one will start being able to develop biases/likes/dislikes. Remember the systems/components that drew you into the music emotionally and those that didn't.

Once Phase 2a is done, Phase 2b is another month or two of winnowing down the list of components one is interested in, doing more research online (reviews and forums), and going back to dealer(s) asking to listen to specific systems you have put together.

Repeat and rinse until you come up with the system of your choice.

Major caveat: if one does not have any local bricks and mortar dealers, then Phases 2a/b will have to be combines and compressed and achieved by scheduling dealer visits in advance when on business or vacation trips to a location where B&M dealers are available.

But if Phases 2a/b (i.e., demoing and listening for yourself) are not done, then no matter how much research one does, I believe any system you put together sight unseen and unheard is a crapshoot.

Sorry for the lengthy description but that was my process 7 years ago and it's probably one of the most fun times I had in this hobby.

Great stuff from Cyril, as usual. :good post:

Friends of mine often ask this question. They're often willing to buy nice electronics, but the "wife acceptance factor" dictates that they buy these tiny speakers and have them placed in weird places "out of the way."

I like to think of marrying the best speakers you can afford with the best space you can dedicate to sound. Build a system around that.

[ChrisAZ]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

Keep your eye on the prize - enjoying your favorite music in a way that moves you.

I don't know that many systems are perfect for all types of music. Techno vs. Opera; Metal vs. Acoustic Jazz; Symphony (the hardest to reproduce IMHO) vs. Rap; etc. While we may have eclectic tastes, I'd advise the newbie to be honest with herself about what she listens to the most and focus on the system that reproduces that music the best, while still generally working well for the other types of music she listens to. That's why I always bring my own music to audition components (and I don't use "audiophile" recordings for that purpose). If a system can do well with John Lee Hooker and The Tedeshi Trucks Band, it's going to be much more satisfying to me in the long run than if it just sounds great with Famous Blue Raincoat (which I of course own and seems to have replaced Jazz at the Pawnshop as the go to demo record).

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by kfr01

Great stuff from Cyril, as usual. :good post:

Friends of mine often ask this question. They're often willing to buy nice electronics, but the "wife acceptance factor" dictates that they buy these tiny speakers and have them placed in weird places "out of the way."

I like to think of marrying the best speakers you can afford with the best space you can dedicate to sound. Build a system around that.

I wonder how good a system can sound with LS50's and a pair of F113's behind the couch or something Sounds like a fun challenge that I will take up someday