Dennis Had Inspire Amps

[Beatlebum]

Volume attenuator. My Herron Audio VTPH-2A produces plenty of gain so I don't require a preamplifier. Normal to slightly loud listening levels have my volume control at around the 10 o'clock position,

[FloridaBoy]

Originally Posted by Beatlebum

I would love some insights into both 45 tubes and 6SL7 tubes. What tubes have you used...what tubes do you like and why...

IMHO, the EML solid plates are simply excellent. Do a search.

6SL7's? There are many good ones that won't break the bank. Personal preference rules. Enjoy the amp.

[FloridaBoy]

Originally Posted by Musica Amantem

Mmmhhh ... I thought the Universal design essentially allows a whole lot of possible output tube alternatives, but this does not imply necesarilly more power, as it would depend on tube and circuit design synergies, OTBE.

I'm concerned we as a group are skewing our precious niche into something purely market/convenience-driven. That is, the SET concept is unique, and should not be compromised for higher power demands ... There's too much of that in the market already. Instead, I would argue we should compare these devices to the equivalent ones perfected in Japan, for example, and try to find cheaper alternatives at same quality levels, or at least strive in that direction. Pure Class A SS designs are available and sound very nice at high power levels ... That is another niche and object. A compromise.

Texture, finesse and imaging stemming from a real SET or a SEP strapped as a Triode (with its inherent limitations) should be the object, and not another boom-boom audio system with tubes in it, sort of speak. PP and ultra-linear designs are typical examples of tube audio designs that ended up trying to achieve more power by sacrificing the purity of the original source.

I would argue a well-designed and executed PSE in Triode mode, using more affordable Pentode tubes, defines the limits before the whole concept is violated. PSE mono-blocks in Triode mode are still within the limit of sound quality and reasonable output power ... at a cost.

I would be more inclined to find more sensitive, well-designed speakers, as well as better-conceived output transformers before messing around with the Purist's SET concept. Today, more than ever in the past, we are blessed with digital design breakthroughs in source processing, with highly accurate DACs and other sources capable of allowing good, down-to-earth SET designs to shine even further, offering us a unique sample of really good sound at a fraction of its historical relative cost.

I'm sure many will disagree, and that is fine, this is only my audio-nut opinion.

There are many legacy Klipsch speakers that will amaze with low power amps and they are not expensive.

[Musica Amantem]

Originally Posted by FloridaBoy

There are many legacy Klipsch speakers that will amaze with low power amps and they are not expensive.

I'm sure they are. Some people think Klipsch are somewhat colored. I don't have any first-hand experience with Klipsch, although there had been many good reviews on the brand over the years, for some good reasons.

The truth is, there is sort of a vacuum in the market for really well-designed, high sensitive and reasonably priced speakers. This in my view is a big limitation for the SET community. You essentially go from full drivers in brands like Omega, Decware and maybe Tekton (in the low-end), and then you have to "jump" into the DeVores and others from the high-end of the market spectrum.

I believe the ideal signal amplification is relatively opposed to that of sound representation: For example, high power brings distortion, OTBE, whereas the ideal speaker imaging and real-life representation would require less sensitivity and more commanding power. Somewhere in-between there must be an ideal sweet-spot, which people could call synergistic. The market is not quite competitive in satisfying this ideal niche at affordable speaker prices, IMHO. This is the reason why refurbished old designs like JBL and others are so popular among those without budget limitations. No current production brands are offering this concept at affordable (mass-produced) prices.

Apologies for the extent of this ranting ...

[Analog Addict]

I dunno. A used pair of Khorns can be picked up well under $2K if you are patient and spread your net well. Yes they are big, but tucked in the corners, they take up less space than one might expect. Also, there is Great Plains Audio....

https://greatplainsaudio.com/products/

A pair of new 604s will also run around $2K and can be built into the enclosures of your choice. I have two pair of the Altec 604s, one set in open baffles, and the other set in slightly modified Altec 828 cabinets. Both sets sound great.

Both the Khorns and 604s are well north of 100 db/w/m and a 45 SET amp will give you plenty of volume for your listening needs.

I'm glad Beetlebum likes his 45. Personally I think you all are missing the boat if you ignore the flea powered triode amps......

[BearCityUSA]

Originally Posted by Analog Addict

I dunno. A used pair of Khorns can be picked up well under $2K if you are patient and spread your net well. Yes they are big, but tucked in the corners, they take up less space than one might expect. Also, there is Great Plains Audio....

https://greatplainsaudio.com/products/

A pair of new 604s will also run around $2K and can be built into the enclosures of your choice. I have two pair of the Altec 604s, one set in open baffles, and the other set in slightly modified Altec 828 cabinets. Both sets sound great.

Both the Khorns and 604s are well north of 100 db/w/m and a 45 SET amp will give you plenty of volume for your listening needs.

I'm glad Beetlebum likes his 45. Personally I think you all are missing the boat if you ignore the flea powered triode amps......

Old man amp!

[BearCityUSA]

Originally Posted by BearCityUSA

Old man amp!

Just kidding of course. Those 45s are sweet.

[Musica Amantem]

Originally Posted by Analog Addict

I dunno. A used pair of Khorns can be picked up well under $2K if you are patient and spread your net well. Yes they are big, but tucked in the corners, they take up less space than one might expect. Also, there is Great Plains Audio....

https://greatplainsaudio.com/products/

A pair of new 604s will also run around $2K and can be built into the enclosures of your choice. I have two pair of the Altec 604s, one set in open baffles, and the other set in slightly modified Altec 828 cabinets. Both sets sound great.

Both the Khorns and 604s are well north of 100 db/w/m and a 45 SET amp will give you plenty of volume for your listening needs.

I'm glad Beetlebum likes his 45. Personally I think you all are missing the boat if you ignore the flea powered triode amps......

I agree with what you said, and in fact, this supports my contention. Remember not everyone has easy access to listen and check the conditions of these one-off speaker offers, or even do it yourself alternatives. Instead, the emphasis should be on mass-produced, higher quality high sensitive speakers to support the real SET experience. I'm sure the market niche is large enough to accommodate a few good mass produced / low-cost suppliers. Today, there are literally hundreds of expensive boutique speaker manufacturers competing basically for the same traditional market. It just does not make much sense not to exploit all the potential of the high sensitivity, high quality and relatively affordable market potential stemming from the truly appreciative low-power SET community. Essentially, nail the design and implementation down and go for high volumes ... This is what the big ones of years past did (Klipsch, JBL, Altec and many others which got diluted by the "more power" notion derived from the SS orientation. By the way, when I talk about speakers, I mean the entire set of components ready to be plugged (cabinet work included).

But, that is just me.

[Bombadil]

I can't find a speaker to go with a flea-watt triode amp. I've listened to many Klipsch, Altec, JBL, Omega, Tekton, and others and none of them do it for me. I tend to like speakers which have excellent definition, clarity, and imaging. Well, I guess I've heard some $30,000+ higher efficiency speakers which I liked, but haven't been willing to pop for that much. To my way of thinking the speaker is the keystone to one's entire system. You find the speaker which appeals to you and build your system around it.

Two modern speakers which I like a lot are the Magico S5 II and the B&W 802D3. Very tight, very clean and non-bloated bass, great imaging. I find them thrilling to listen to. The Magico was measured at 87.5db and the B&W at 91. I wouldn't pair either with a flea watt triode. I might try to drive the 802D3 with an Inspire KT150 mono, perhaps not for all types of music in all rooms, but for when listening at moderate levels.

There is a Von Schweikert massive tower VR-9SE Mk 2 which has been measured at 96db and sounds fantastic. I'd like to hear it with a great flea watt. But as this speaker sells for $118,000, that's way, way out of my price range.

I've yet to have a chance to listen to a low watt triode driving speakers which I really like.

[BearCityUSA]

Originally Posted by Bombadil

I can't find a speaker to go with a flea-watt triode amp. I've listened to many Klipsch, Altec, JBL, Omega, Tekton, and others and none of them do it for me. I tend to like speakers which have excellent definition, clarity, and imaging. Well, I guess I've heard some $30,000+ higher efficiency speakers which I liked, but haven't been willing to pop for that much. To my way of thinking the speaker is the keystone to one's entire system. You find the speaker which appeals to you and build your system around it.

Two modern speakers which I like a lot are the Magico S5 II and the B&W 802D3. Very tight, very clean and non-bloated bass, great imaging. I find them thrilling to listen to. The Magico was measured at 87.5db and the B&W at 91. I wouldn't pair either with a flea watt triode. I might try to drive the 802D3 with an Inspire KT150 mono, perhaps not for all types of music in all rooms, but for when listening at moderate levels.

There is a Von Schweikert massive tower VR-9SE Mk 2 which has been measured at 96db and sounds fantastic. I'd like to hear it with a great flea watt. But as this speaker sells for $118,000, that's way, way out of my price range.

I've yet to have a chance to listen to a low watt triode driving speakers which I really like.

Dennis has been pushing his new Proac DT8s with the 45s he has been selling of late and is very excited by the pairing. He tends to listen at moderate levels and unless he has changed his equipment he has a lp-3a pushing them 45s into the DT8s which does push harder than the 27a. They are listed at 90 db @... but that will fool you. They are driven very well with tube amps. Their listing of 20W min to drive them is based on ss amps. I have been pushing my pair with 6f6g @ 4W/ch and am very happy. Albeit not to concert levels but much louder than my wife will accept.