Incoming Ref160Ms

[lem321]

Anyone have comments regarding how the ARC 160M compares to the ARC 250SE?

[audio5]

Someone had told me that 260M or some designation was in the work for 2019? I hope it is not delirium.

[Billion$Baby]

Originally Posted by lem321

Anyone have comments regarding how the ARC 160M compares to the ARC 250SE?

On Audiogon there is a guy from Maryland who owns the 250SE already. He was loaned a pair of the 160M's after going to a 160 demonstration by Dave Gordon of Audio Research at JSA AUDIO in Bethesda. In a shootout at his house he claims that he and 7 of his friends all preferred the 250SE over the 160M. As a owner of the 160M that isn't something I wanted to hear obviously. Take that for what its worth

[ariess]

I was told that Warren Gehl, the ears for Audio Research, would choose Ref160Ms over 250SE’s.

[Billion$Baby]

Here is the post by user JONAIKEN.

in a recent home audition of the highly regarded New ARC Reference 160M Monoblocks compared to my Ancient Industrial looking ARC Ref. 250SE Monoblocks, a group of audiophiles listened for hours comparing the two amps. A week prior to this session I was told by Audio Research’s Dave Gordon “the Ref 160Ms were better sounding than the Ref 250SE’s.” At the end of the session The eight of us unanimously liked the Ref 250SE over the Ref 160M. It wasn’t close, the 250SE’s were more transparent with greater detail and dimensionality, ballsier (dynamic), with excellent tonal shadings and timbral accuracy. The overall sound was more palatable and took you to the hall. There was a sophistication to the sound of the 250SE’s the 160Ms could not match. I truly wanted the Ref 160M because of their modern see through metered front glass but their sound left me wanting more. The 160M are very good and can be compared to the latest Mercedes E-Class while the Ref 250SE are a 2015 Mercedes S-Class with the AMG package ( Rolled 6H30P-DR and Winged C SED 6550C tubes) and provided greater performance. Newer is not necessarily better

[lem321]

Thanks for that Billion$Baby. That’s the first time I’ve heard any feedback from listeners comparing these two monoblocks side by side. I suspect that if and when ARC comes out with an updated replacement for the 250SE (260SE), that might be a different story. I’ve noticed a lot of 250SEs on the market going for under $15K. Sounds like a good deal. Not as sexy as its new little brother but still no slouch. I guess I’ll hang on to my 250SEs for now.

[ariess]

Originally Posted by Billion$Baby

Here is the post by user JONAIKEN.

in a recent home audition of the highly regarded New ARC Reference 160M Monoblocks compared to my Ancient Industrial looking ARC Ref. 250SE Monoblocks, a group of audiophiles listened for hours comparing the two amps. A week prior to this session I was told by Audio Research’s Dave Gordon “the Ref 160Ms were better sounding than the Ref 250SE’s.” At the end of the session The eight of us unanimously liked the Ref 250SE over the Ref 160M. It wasn’t close, the 250SE’s were more transparent with greater detail and dimensionality, ballsier (dynamic), with excellent tonal shadings and timbral accuracy. The overall sound was more palatable and took you to the hall. There was a sophistication to the sound of the 250SE’s the 160Ms could not match. I truly wanted the Ref 160M because of their modern see through metered front glass but their sound left me wanting more. The 160M are very good and can be compared to the latest Mercedes E-Class while the Ref 250SE are a 2015 Mercedes S-Class with the AMG package ( Rolled 6H30P-DR and Winged C SED 6550C tubes) and provided greater performance. Newer is not necessarily better

Well I guess one would have to compare for oneself in their own system with their own tweaks (this guy tweaked up the Ref250SE with 6h30DR's and Winged C's and he never mentioned whether he used after market power cords or Stillpoints but I'd guess he did). But I have met Warren Gehl a few times and if he liked the Ref160M's better I would put a lot of stock in that.

[W9TR]

I would be very hesitant to make a judgement call on someone else's home test without really understanding how the amps were set up and gains matched, etc. Even a small gain difference would render the higher gain amplifier as better sounding in a direct comparison.

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by W9TR

I would be very hesitant to make a judgement call on someone else's home test without really understanding how the amps were set up and gains matched, etc. Even a small gain difference would render the higher gain amplifier as better sounding in a direct comparison.

In fact, if I read that right, the guy rolled the tubes in his 250SE, making it a different comparison than stock factory.

[lem321]

I would agree with all who suggest that nothing beats an in-home audition side by side to make it a fair apples to apples comparison. Whether the tube rolling made a difference for the better (or worse) can only be confirmed by the owner of the 250SE. And in the end, it IS his opinion ("it wasn't close..."). Having said that, I would be surprised if Warren Gehl said anything other than the new 160Ms sound better than the 250SEs. Not to imply that they're not! At 2x the price (used 250SEs go for $15K), it's an interesting value/cost proposition to consider.