McIntosh C54?

[jfray]

Yeah I have also been thinking about the 611’s but I’m not sure I can justify it……. I think my next move is a C54 but who knows

[Charles]

jfray, I believe that McIntosh will always have a one box purely solid state preamp. There is nothing to upgrade to, regarding the C-53. Here is a quote from the TAS review of the C-53: "Here is how I concluded my review of the previous model (referring to the C-52--my note), only with the new model number in place: “The C53 replaces a whole shelf-full of components by rolling linestage, phonostages, DAC, equalizer, and headphone amp into a single elegant box that, while not small, is hardly large in view of everything it does. I can’t think of another component that manages to do so much so superlatively well, with no compromises in any ways that matter to me as an audio critic and music lover. It’s a standing rebuke to the folly of minimalism and the snobbishness of those who insist that only separates can scale the peaks of audio artistry. Indeed, I’d lay crisp new bills it would hold its own against the most expensive preamps out there, even bettering some, yielding a little to others. If that little—and it really is miniscule—is important to you, and you have the one- to two-hundred grand required to buy them plus the associated separates that are built into the C53, then have a party. But know that none of them will get you its combination of state-of-the-art performance, integration, convenience, functions, and features, to say nothing of its great lineage, battleship construction, and looks that just radiate class, taste, and timeless style.” No need to add or subtract a word. A great design has been made greater still."

Paul Seydor absolutely loves his C-52 and says the C-53 is an even better preamp. Your options for the foreseeable future are a C-2700 or C-12000, if you don't want the C-53. The C-53 is a great preamp. The major consideration is the substantial price increase that I feel will be coming sooner rather than later. If folks are seriously considering a large purchase of Mac gear it might be wise not to postpone to next year. I think one must have good reasons for upgrading. For me, I have waited patiently for the new MC2.1KW and at 50K, it is a tremendous bargain. I patiently waited for the McIntosh answer for its C-1000 three box preamp. It was not the C-1100. It is the current hybrid C-12000. When I went to trade my C-1000, because it was solid state box and not the tube box, the resale value wasn't nearly as good as if I had the whole 3-box preamp. Folks want tubes as well as solid state. So I have kept the D1100/MCT500 for five years and am now returning to the conventional full function preamp and CD/SACD player arrangement. I have to say that Mac's designs of hybrid source gear is absolutely brilliant. No one but McIntosh could pull this off successfully. It remains to be seen how much better the hybrid gear will sound. What I have now sounds mighty good. But if I was ever going to upgrade, now was the time to do it for me. IMO, now is a good time to upgrade before potentially hefty price increases become a reality. I think the across the board ARC price increase my not be an outlier but a harbinger of price increases to come from other manufacturers.

Best Charles

[jfray]

Charles,

Thanks for the reply! I agree the C52 is a FINE preamp and am extremely happy with it. I do like the idea of an upgradeable DAC built into the preamp. I have an amp selector for tubes or solid state so I don't feel the draw for a tube preamp. You think it’s worth exploring a two box solution?

[Charles]

jfray, I don't think you need a C-12000. You have a system one notch below reference level. When I look at your system I can't see a weak link. You have put a lot of thought into it. I think your instincts are correct about upgrading to a C-53 because the DA2 module is quite strong and is upgradeable. Most of the time I can look at a system and make a good suggestion, but not with yours. It has no weak link. I will be trading in my MCT500 as soon as my new gear arrives. It is in excellent condition. I can get you in contact with my dealer. You might want to consider selling your C-52 and MCD1100 and buy a new C-53 from them and my MCT500 transport. The DA2 module comes with the MCT SACD input. This would be an exciting upgrade for you. Anyway, it's something to consider.

Best

Charles

[jfray]

Charles,

Thanks for the kind words and it’s not a bad idea on the C53 and MCT500. I really haven’t looked at the MCT500 but I will definitely look into this path. Really appreciate the input and it’s a fun journey!

THANKS Again

Originally Posted by Charles

jfray, I don't think you need a C-12000. You have a system one notch below reference level. When I look at your system I can't see a weak link. You have put a lot of thought into it. I think your instincts are correct about upgrading to a C-53 because the DA2 module is quite strong and is upgradeable. Most of the time I can look at a system and make a good suggestion, but not with yours. It has no weak link. I will be trading in my MCT500 as soon as my new gear arrives. It is in excellent condition. I can get you in contact with my dealer. You might want to consider selling your C-52 and MCD1100 and buy a new C-53 from them and my MCT500 transport. The DA2 module comes with the MCT SACD input. This would be an exciting upgrade for you. Anyway, it's something to consider.

Best

Charles

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by jfray

I have a C52 and really love this preamp as it has tons of flexibility. I upgraded to a C53 but waited for a year and still never received it so I got my money back eventually. Long story…….. I was extremely frustrated but now feel it’s about time for a C54 release so should I wait or pull the trigger now on a C53. I’m in no rush but don’t want to wait for no reason if a C54 release is in the distant future. So what are your odds of a C54 in 2024 or 2025

and....

Originally Posted by jfray

Charles,

Thanks for the reply! I agree the C52 is a FINE preamp and am extremely happy with it.

If I may, here's a counterpoint for your consideration: If you really love your C52, as you say you do, then why sell it? It doesn't necessarily stand to reason that a C54, if released, whenever that might be, would be actually be more...gratifying to listen to.

So, with that, if you'd like to have a more natural, relaxed (as Hans B. says) and engaging musical experience, here's some other thoughts for your consideration:

1) Improve your room acoustics. The room acoustics, by far, have the biggest influence on the audio quality of your system.

2) Improve your power cords and power distribution with noise-reducing power cords and power distributors. The biggest source of noise in your system are the full-wave bridge rectifiers in the power supplies of your components themselves (not the AC wall receptacle, though that is a statistically significant source of noise). Noise-reducing power cords will prevent the noise from your amplification components traveling back upstream to contaminate to your much lower-signal source components. Remember, this is AC: alternating current. The current goes both ways: INTO your amplification components and back OUT of your amplification components, at...60X/second. Dedicated AC lines do not prevent this noise from traveling upstream from your amplification components to your source components. Here's an excerpt of an article by Caelin Gabriel on this:

"A primary source of audible sonic degradation is caused by the power supplies in our audio/video components. Most components use FWBR (full wave bridge rectifier) power supplies that generate an incredible amount of transient noise when the rectifiers switch off. The design of a power cable can significantly affect the reactance of these signals within the power supply. The power cable is effectively part of the primary winding of the power transformer. The transition between the various metals used in a power cable and its connectors can cause electromagnetic reflections and diode-like rectification of the noise impulses as they propagate away from the power supply. If the power cable presents a high impedance to these signals they will be reflected back into the power supply where they will intermodulate, thus increasing the high frequency noise levels of the component. Most power supply filters are ineffective at blocking very high frequency noise components and much of it is passed through to the DC rails. The sonic effects of this include: high background noise levels, blurred or slurred transients and a general lack of clarity and purity of the sound or visual image.”

Reference here: https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/...20transformer.

3) Reduce the ground-plane noise, both on the chassis-ground plane and signal-ground plane. There are a number of ground-plane noise reduction products now that will provide a quieter, more realistic, more authentic and more engaging musical experience than swapping out one fine amp for another.

It's my own, and many others, experience that focusing on improving these key fundamentals with respect to improving the overall foundation of your room acoustics and audio system's power distribution & ground-plane noise will pay bigger dividends, and result in a more engaging and beguiling music experience, than simply swapping out one fine amp for, presumably, another.

Just some "food for thought". Cheers.

[jfray]

THANKS for the great post!

Fortunately I have great room acoustics (staggered stud walls with double sheet rock and green glue in between, plus the thickness of the block paneling plywood). The room is very quiet

Have dedicated 20A power circuit for the system and could upgrade power cords but I’m in a place I think an upgrade to my cartridge or DAC will have a bigger impact. You think power cords and grounding chassis would have a bigger impact lots of things to consider.

.

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

and....



If I may, here's a counterpoint for your consideration: If you really love your C52, as you say you do, then why sell it? It doesn't necessarily stand to reason that a C54, if released, whenever that might be, would be actually be more...gratifying to listen to.

So, with that, if you'd like to have a more natural, relaxed (as Hans B. says) and engaging musical experience, here's some other thoughts for your consideration:

1) Improve your room acoustics. The room acoustics, by far, have the biggest influence on the audio quality of your system.

2) Improve your power cords and power distribution with noise-reducing power cords and power distributors. The biggest source of noise in your system are the full-wave bridge rectifiers in the power supplies of your components themselves (not the AC wall receptacle, though that is a statistically significant source of noise). Noise-reducing power cords will prevent the noise from your amplification components traveling back upstream to contaminate to your much lower-signal source components. Remember, this is AC: alternating current. The current goes both ways: INTO your amplification components and back OUT of your amplification components, at...60X/second. Dedicated AC lines do not prevent this noise from traveling upstream from your amplification components to your source components. Here's an excerpt of an article by Caelin Gabriel on this:

"A primary source of audible sonic degradation is caused by the power supplies in our audio/video components. Most components use FWBR (full wave bridge rectifier) power supplies that generate an incredible amount of transient noise when the rectifiers switch off. The design of a power cable can significantly affect the reactance of these signals within the power supply. The power cable is effectively part of the primary winding of the power transformer. The transition between the various metals used in a power cable and its connectors can cause electromagnetic reflections and diode-like rectification of the noise impulses as they propagate away from the power supply. If the power cable presents a high impedance to these signals they will be reflected back into the power supply where they will intermodulate, thus increasing the high frequency noise levels of the component. Most power supply filters are ineffective at blocking very high frequency noise components and much of it is passed through to the DC rails. The sonic effects of this include: high background noise levels, blurred or slurred transients and a general lack of clarity and purity of the sound or visual image.”

Reference here: https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/...20transformer.

3) Reduce the ground-plane noise, both on the chassis-ground plane and signal-ground plane. There are a number of ground-plane noise reduction products now that will provide a quieter, more realistic, more authentic and more engaging musical experience than swapping out one fine amp for another.

It's my own, and many others, experience that focusing on improving these key fundamentals with respect to improving the overall foundation of your room acoustics and audio system's power distribution & ground-plane noise will pay bigger dividends, and result in a more engaging and beguiling music experience, than simply swapping out one fine amp for, presumably, another.

Just some "food for thought". Cheers.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by jfray

THANKS for the great post!

Fortunately I have great room acoustics (staggered stud walls with double sheet rock and green glue in between, plus the thickness of the block paneling plywood). The room is very quiet

Hi Jfray,
Your wall construction is good, but the use of sheet rock, studs, and green glue does not obviate the necessity and requirement of using effective acoustical panels in the listening room.

Acoustical panels, both diffusion and absorption panels (and bass traps in corners), as well as 13-root quadratic diffuser panels on the ceiling (one of the largest reflection surfaces in the room) are required to keep sound waves from reflecting off of the front wall (the wall in front of the listener, behind the speakers), the ceiling, and at the 1st-reflection points on the side walls. Also, slab floors do not prevent these problems either, because, at a specific frequency, concrete quite literally rings like a bell really loudly; this can be easily demonstrated by placing a small music box mechanism on the slab, and simply turning the the little crank.

Here are some reference articles speaking to this:
https://www.wavetrain.com.au/the-imp...ound-quality/#

https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/room-acoustics/

Here's a pic of my system set-up as an example. I listen in a "quasi-nearfield" set-up, with the speakers 6.5 feet apart and 7 feet from the speakers (measured with a laser tape measure). In this small-ish listening space, note how many panels I have just on the front wall.

There also GIK acoustical panels at the 1st reflection points and a 13-root quadratic diffuser on the ceiling (not shown in the photo).


There is also a GIK Slatfusor on the wall behind the listener....

Originally Posted by jfray

You think power cords and grounding chassis would have a bigger impact? lots of things to consider.
.

Not as big an impact as the room acoustics and the use and placement acoustical panels for effective managment of room acoustics, but a good power distributor, quality power cords, and an Altaira ground-plane noise reduction hub, are the 2nd most important foundational part of your system, and MUCH MORE important than a new amp.

To sum up, the priority of the most important factors are listed in my first reply, and here in more detail. And most respectfully, you will have a MUCH more realistic, immersive, engaging, and beguiling musical experience for yourself and your friends by addressing the points (acoustics, power distribution and ground-plane noise reduction) discussed in the first post and here than switchin' out one amp for another. Talk to any good recording or mastering engineer, e.g. Rick Rubin or Glen Tabor, or an acoustical engineer like Norm Varney, and they'll agree.

Cheers and my best regards.

[aclearspot]

What brand of panel is that one ,just left of the left monitor ? It looks very absorbing and comfy. Sorry just trying to be funny. I agree with you 100%
about the room being as important as hardware, cables etc. Easily proven by moving the speakers and the listening spot.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by aclearspot

What brand of panel is that one ,just left of the left monitor ? It looks very absorbing and comfy. Sorry just trying to be funny. I agree with you 100%
about the room being as important as hardware, cables etc. Easily proven by moving the speakers and the listening spot.

Ha! That's just a pillow on my leather couch that the cats like, in particular. I also have to accomodate what they want, as they live here too, and you know what cats can be like! As "apex predators" they can be very insistent about what they want. They like to sit on that pillow and also along the back of the couch looking out the window behind the couch to survey their "territory".

Funny thing is I hardly ever sit on the couch anymore, the cats have pretty much taken it over.