Argh, I sold my Ref5se... what was I thinking!

[MPS]

Originally Posted by turntable

Thanks Stephen, Tima. I would like to think I am consistent.

I was an early adopter to use Stillpoints under speakers - I had some negative comments to that was well, but 18 months on they seem to be well and truely all the rage - and they are excellent.

Funny how if an opinion is quite different to the norm, it must be wrong or the unit is faulty - all without hearing the two preamps in question at home for an extended period of time.

I have probably been a little hard on the ARC as it is not garbage, but I paid good money for it, it was not a unit I had on demo for the weekend.

I thought ARC 5se would be very neutral but it is far from it. Most people don't understand after all the teflon caps break in they are super smooth and quite the opposite to the break in period.
My thoughts were somewhat confirmed by the sales guy who agreed with the overall big cruisey typical American Cadillac ride - plush but not particulary agile. He said most typical audiophiles love this type of sound with their jazz and female vocals.

In a lot of respects I preferred the LS27 pre amp - however could not live with a product when each gain structure had a different sound. Don't anyone try to tell me that this is not a fact if you have actually heard or own one.

The Ref 5SE is not a pre amp that excels in PRAT and is not great at playing rock n roll, alternative or electronic music vs the GAT, balanced or not balanced. To me it was a one trick pony and I was truly glad to get it out of the system and cut my losses

the Ref5se was not faulty - I picked it up from the distributor. I did change the 6550 to a Tung Sol which improved it.

My criticisms should not invalidate your opinion if you like the Ref5SE. That is why there are 1001 different hifi brands out there for all to enjoy.

I like when punters like us give our honest opinions on hifi, after all everyone complains about every review being too nice never telling the truth.


If your hifi is an enabler for you to go out and buy more and more new music, then your system is truely working.

How many new music and albums have you bought in the last 3 months? think about it gents.

My experience is with Ref3 but it's likely not that different to Ref5 series.
Firstly I find it to be on the neutral side of things but I guess it depends on the reference ..
Secondly I totally agree on breaking in the Teflon caps, it takes serious time and sound changes from slightly rough to open and fast and you get that open window feeling to music.
I don't quite get how TungSol 6550 is an improvement if you are looking for more "rock" sound, in my opinion Sovtek 6550 is slightly more dynamic and straight forward, I'm not talking about NOS here...
LS27 is "officially" better than Ref3 but is it really better than Ref5 or just different? For more PRAT models with less "tube sweetness" might indeed be better but that's not likely something a person shopping for ARC prioritizes.

BTW
I have Teflon caps in my Ref3 and those red PRP resistors.
as for record shopping, I did buy few but then again its been a steady rate all along.
Actually haven't even switched on my stereo for couple of weeks..

[2fastdriving]

I will agree that the Ref5 has a bit of a softer/sweeter/laid back side than most solid state preamps (as is expected, because it's tube). But I also like rock, and I have NEVER been disappointed at my system's ability to rock! You either like the Ref5's approach to sound, or you don't, as evidenced by this thread. But if you do, it will rock just fine, thank you.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by NOLG4EVR

You are of course entitled to your opinion but I highly doubt the OP was looking for a Wavac vs Shindo amp discussion in his thread. A 'meh' description is usually interpreted as quite poor. This amp has been respected by many and hearing it described this way is very unusual. Although Shindo is not for everyone I have never heard it characterized this way.

it all how you define "meh"....I took it to mean ambivalent, neither positive nor negative.

From Wikipedia: "Meh is an interjection used as an expression of indifference or boredom. It may also mean "be it as it may". It is often regarded as a verbal shrug of the shoulders. The use of the term "meh" shows that the speaker is apathetic, uninterested, or indifferent to the question or subject at hand"

Which pretty much sums up my view of the experience of listening to the Lafon. And to be honest, it it came down to listening to Lafons or an ARC Ref 75, well, I'll take a Ref 75 any day of the week; that is a GORGEOUS-sounding amp.

Just to be accurate here, I wasn't the first to bring up Shindo; a number of others were; I just shared my experiences, and I have many hours of listening to Shindo gear.

But one last point. My personal view, and I think it is shared by others, is that this is a FORUM; where it is totally okay to express a different point of view or different set of values, have meaningful dialog with others, and feel free and accepted to express those views, whether they be "popular" or "unpopular". This is what makes AA special, Ivan insists in courtesy, civility and respect for various views and opinions.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Chris,
I agree fully.

Stephen, without comparing the gear in the same room with the same speakers, any opinion is biased as you surely know that as a scientist.
When you will have a Giscours in your own room, set up properly ( especially for analog ), you will REALLY know if you prefer your CJ preamp or not or if a Wavac amp is better than a Shindo amp. And let's say that on a pair of DeVore speakers a Wavac is better. Will it be that way on Harbeths ? On Shindo speakers ? On Wilson's ? On Dynaudio's ? And so on...

Honestly buddy, too many variables to draw definite conclusions in this hobby. That is the precise reason what I post less on audio now.
Being truly honest, we cannot say much.
We just enjoy our own system and that's good.
At a certain level of price, and we passed that level for a long time, there IS NO BETTER OR WORSE. ONLY PERSONAL PREFERENCES.

I 'm trying know to stay the more "objective" possible, and realize that I cannot say anything if electronic gear and cables were not heard in the same room with the same speaker. AND WHEN THIS IS OBTAINED, the conclusions are only true for my ears and my tastes !

Even with that condition obtained, studies showed that our auditive memory is so low that without instant comparisons ( that is how I compared various Dacs, all plugged with same cables to same preamp ), possible for sources if preamp has multiple inputs, even my "unbiased" test is biased because we cannot trust our memory.

"Vanity of vanities. All is Vanity".

Jerome, my friend, you do me a bit of a disservice to assume that my listerning experiences comparing this gear was not performed as a controlled set of experiments. But to minimize taking this thread off-topic any further, I've created new post in General Audio discussion. Feel free to join in the new thread...

http://www.audioaficionado.org/gener...tml#post651786

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Jerome, my friend, you do me a bit of a disservice to assume that my listerning experiences comparing this gear was not performed as a controlled set of experiments. But to minimize taking this thread off-topic any further, I've created new post in General Audio discussion. Feel free to join in the new thread... http://www.audioaficionado.org/gener...tml#post651786

Thanks Stephen.
Replied !

[NOLG4EVR]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

it all how you define "meh"....I took it to mean ambivalent, neither positive nor negative.

From Wikipedia: "Meh is an interjection used as an expression of indifference or boredom. It may also mean "be it as it may". It is often regarded as a verbal shrug of the shoulders. The use of the term "meh" shows that the speaker is apathetic, uninterested, or indifferent to the question or subject at hand"

Which pretty much sums up my view of the experience of listening to the Lafon. And to be honest, it it came down to listening to Lafons or an ARC Ref 75, well, I'll take a Ref 75 any day of the week; that is a GORGEOUS-sounding amp.

Just to be accurate here, I wasn't the first to bring up Shindo; a number of others were; I just shared my experiences, and I have many hours of listening to Shindo gear.

But one last point. My personal view, and I think it is shared by others, is that this is a FORUM; where it is totally okay to express a different point of view or different set of values, have meaningful dialog with others, and feel free and accepted to express those views, whether they be "popular" or "unpopular". This is what makes AA special, Ivan insists in courtesy, civility and respect for various views and opinions.

As I stated in my post 'you are of course entitled to your opinion'.

As am I.

[taters]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

Man, what has gotten into everyone on arc gear lately? We have this thread where people claim the Ref5se is horrible, and another thread that claims the ref75 and Ref 150 are worthless compared to the new "flagship" gs150! Gimme a break.

Nothing arc makes in this league is bad, it's all very, very good, and although there's always "better" and "worse", let's cut the hyperbole!

If the 5se is crap than my Ls-27 must be a real piece of s--t. I have the garbage collectors coming tomorrow. Maybe I will just put it in the trash tonight.

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by taters

If the 5se is crap than my Ls-27 must be a real piece of s--t. I have the garbage collectors coming tomorrow. Maybe I will just put it in the trash tonight.

[MPS]

Originally Posted by taters

If the 5se is crap than my Ls-27 must be a real piece of s--t. I have the garbage collectors coming tomorrow. Maybe I will just put it in the trash tonight.

In case you didn't already do it, there's people who would like to know where your trash bin exactly is

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by MPS

In case you didn't already do it, there's people who would like to know where your trash bin exactly is