New Shindo Forum!

[lowens]

Devore O96's are 96db and a 9 ohm flat load . I think they qualify as high efficiency!

[Mikeyc]

Yes, HE = High Efficiency. But its much more than that, impedance is also a big factor. My good friend Restock (maybe he will want to chime in) paired his Haut Brion/Monbrison with Devore Super 8s (90 dB) and it resulted in astounding sound, really knocked my socks off. However, when he upgraded to much more expensive and more efficient Verity Sarastro IIs ($40K list and 93 dB) we both agreed that the sound wasn't as good as the Devores, not as dynamic nor as involving, despite that these speakers can kick butt. Apparently the impedance curve of the Sarastro's is not as Shindo friendly as the Devores. So you really can't just go by the numbers, you have to try them out in your system.

[lowens]

Gee Plink you heard my exact system, I guess I better sell it all and get myself a pair of horns....no way baby, as I love what I got!

[countingbackwards]

So an update on my experiment trying an Aurieges with VTL monoblocks...

I brought the tube gear back to the store yesterday morning, somewhat reluctantly - I had a lot of fun listening to them! While music in general was sounding excellent, there were occasions of hardness on top when arrangements got "busy" - that combined with the fact that I was listening with the volume control in the 9 o'clock position, seems to indicate that there's too much gain in the system, resulting in the preamp not being driven hard enough and the amp being driven too hard. In terms of absolute power...there should be no problem for the 100-watt amp to drive the moderate load of my Verity speakers.

My conclusion to this point is that the Shindo preamp is an absolute winner...and I'd like to use one in my system, either an Aurieges or a Monbrison. But first I need to determine the right amp for me, and while it may be that the VTL EL34 monoblocks are the right thing (if I special order them with less gain), I'll also try out the stereo amp with 6550's as well as a few solid state options (Nagra, Boulder, Ayre) to try to find an ideal amp match. The difficulty is, though, that if I move away from a VTL power amp, I'll be dealing with 2 dealers, which makes it harder to get a good match.

As an aside...what are opinions on the AU23 stepup transformer vs. the one built in to the Monbrison? My dealer is suggesting that I change out my Benz Ruby cartridge (80 ohm internal impedance) for an Ebony TR since it's a perfect match to the Monbrison...but I'm tentative to put money into an essentially equivalent cartridge to what I have...would the Ruby through the AU23 be comparable/better/worse than an Ebony TR straight into the Monbrison?

[Alberto]

CB,

If you are looking at pricey amps like Nagra, Boulder and Ayre, you should really consider skipping to what will probably be your final destination anyway and get a Shindo amp. This way you won't have to worry/wonder about impedance matching, etc.

Alberto

[sibelius]

Originally Posted by countingbackwards

As an aside...what are opinions on the AU23 stepup transformer vs. the one built in to the Monbrison? My dealer is suggesting that I change out my Benz Ruby cartridge (80 ohm internal impedance) for an Ebony TR since it's a perfect match to the Monbrison...but I'm tentative to put money into an essentially equivalent cartridge to what I have...would the Ruby through the AU23 be comparable/better/worse than an Ebony TR straight into the Monbrison?

I'd venture a guess you will prefer the AU23 to the internal Lundahl SUT in the Monbrison. My understanding is the internal MC in the Shindo preamps are optimized around the SPU style cartridges. Even then, the majority of people seem to favor the Auditorium (especially the Hommage) to the Lundahl. If there is such a thing as a weak link in a Shindo preamp it's probably the internal SUT.

[Mikeyc]

Originally Posted by Alberto

CB,

If you are looking at pricey amps like Nagra, Boulder and Ayre, you should really consider skipping to what will probably be your final destination anyway and get a Shindo amp. This way you won't have to worry/wonder about impedance matching, etc.

Alberto

+1 especially if you go with the Aurieges, which is difficult to match with SS amps.

[Cucumber_Jones]

Originally Posted by Mikeyc

+1 especially if you go with the Aurieges, which is difficult to match with SS amps.

Why is it hard to match. I lent mine to a friend and it was a disaster with his ayre.

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by Cucumber_Jones

Why is it hard to match. I lent mine to a friend and it was a disaster with his ayre.

1 - Input and output impedance.

2 - Voicing: the preamp and amp may be voiced with different expectations for each other.

BTW, in what way was it a disaster? Too bright, too soft and mellow, etc.
Alberto

[countingbackwards]

Originally Posted by Alberto

CB,

If you are looking at pricey amps like Nagra, Boulder and Ayre, you should really consider skipping to what will probably be your final destination anyway and get a Shindo amp. This way you won't have to worry/wonder about impedance matching, etc.

Alberto

I would agree with you, except...well, the Nagra PSA, for example, is a dealer trade-in that would cost less than a third the price of a Corton-Charlemagne 80 (which is really the right Shindo for my speakers). Of course I'd need to listen to and like the Nagra for that price difference to be relevant, but it's still a different price range than a CS80. And on top of that, my dealer doesn't have a demo CS80, so even that, I'd be buying on spec.

Looking at the Shindo line, the preamps are a much better value than the amps...it's hard to find a well-built, top-notch, full-function tube preamp that can match an Aurieges or Monbrison at any price, it seems. But the amps...not the same story. A CS80, with a similar tube compliment as a Mac MC275, is more than triple the price...a Montrachet with a pair of EL34's per channel is far more expensive than VTL monoblocks with 2 pairs of EL34's per channel. Now obviously you have to "pay to play" - but you're paying a lot for the design and ingenuity on the Shindo amps...a price you don't have to pay for other similar-use amps that are also hand-built one-by-one.

Anyways, I'll audition some stuff at a few dealers this weekend, and see where that leaves me. There's also a few Mcinstosh dealers around - perhaps an MC275 would match well with the Shindo preamps?