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  #11  
Old 09-28-2013, 08:24 AM
SteveK SteveK is offline
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I'm taking my own thread off course, but I also have Phantom III. I found REF5 sounding better in all aspects - tighter bass, airy with shimmering highs, wider soundstage. Should I give the new Phantom II a listen? I believe 202 is no longer in production. The Phantom is a bit out of my price range, but I assume that is the successor to 202.
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2013, 09:28 AM
Mr Froggy Mr Froggy is offline
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I think you need to try Evo222...

In my case, Evo 400 were in my listenning room asap, I really love Krell sound
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2013, 09:34 AM
SteveK SteveK is offline
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I have gone through number of brands and have decided that I love Krell sounds the best. However, it can sometimes sound a bit dry and adding touch of tube sound with ARC pre seem be have that perfect combo. I really want to try Phantom or Phantom II (or used 202 or 222) if I can audition them first. Too expensive to buy without hearing it in my system first...

Last edited by SteveK; 10-09-2013 at 09:41 AM.
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveK View Post
I have gone through number of brands and have decided that I love Krell sounds the best. However, it can sometimes sound a bit dry and adding touch of tube sound with ARC pre seem be have that perfect combo. I really want to try Phantom or Phantom II (or used 202 or 222) if I can audition them first. Too expensive to buy without hearing it in my system first...
My Krell Evo 402 was conected to ARC LS 27. But I tried it with Evo 202 and it was much better. Warmer, darker and at the same time clear, fresh and more detailles. Better dynamics both micro and macro. Especially with the Cast connection. Krell sounds good with ARC. But Krell sounds great with Krell. Try to match Krell with Krell it be the best match due to my experience.
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2013, 11:49 AM
SteveK SteveK is offline
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Very tempting!! I see you have SF. I also have SF Strad with 302e and ready to pull the trigger on 400e monoblocks... Unless I check into audio rehab somewhere, I may succumb and buy a used 202
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  #16  
Old 10-09-2013, 10:18 PM
SteveK SteveK is offline
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Originally Posted by Apexorca View Post
My Krell Evo 402 was conected to ARC LS 27. But I tried it with Evo 202 and it was much better. Warmer, darker and at the same time clear, fresh and more detailles. Better dynamics both micro and macro. Especially with the Cast connection. Krell sounds good with ARC. But Krell sounds great with Krell. Try to match Krell with Krell it be the best match due to my experience.
I spoke with my dealer today and there is a chance I can get a great "bundle" deal if I order 400e with Phantom. I have a serious question, based on assumption that 202 = Phantom.

You say 202 is much better than LS27. But, isn't it possible that ARC REF5 SE (or ref10) may provide as much incremental improvement over LS27? They are on different tier within ARC lineup. Maybe there won't be as much improvement going from REF5 SE to Phantom. ARC Ref 10 may even be better than 202

I don't mean to make this Krell vs ARC. I am trying to ascertain the value of "upgrading" from REF5SE to Phantom.

Maybe you are referring more to Krell-Krell synergy being superior to ARC-Krell.

I had Phantom III with 302e, and I definitely felt REF5 with 302e was superior.

I cannot demo Phantom. I have to take a leap of faith and just order it. So, it is a big (but, very delicious) dilemma...
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  #17  
Old 10-10-2013, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveK View Post
I spoke with my dealer today and there is a chance I can get a great "bundle" deal if I order 400e with Phantom. I have a serious question, based on assumption that 202 = Phantom.

You say 202 is much better than LS27. But, isn't it possible that ARC REF5 SE (or ref10) may provide as much incremental improvement over LS27? They are on different tier within ARC lineup. Maybe there won't be as much improvement going from REF5 SE to Phantom. ARC Ref 10 may even be better than 202

I don't mean to make this Krell vs ARC. I am trying to ascertain the value of "upgrading" from REF5SE to Phantom.

Maybe you are referring more to Krell-Krell synergy being superior to ARC-Krell.

I had Phantom III with 302e, and I definitely felt REF5 with 302e was superior.

I cannot demo Phantom. I have to take a leap of faith and just order it. So, it is a big (but, very delicious) dilemma...
Hi!
I dont know how it sounds in your room. But i my room and with my gear ARC gets a little bit harsh from midrange and up. As you mentioned there is a big step from Ls27 to 202 and probably the difference is smaller with ref10.


In the end, you have to go with your ears, n your room with your own gear to evaluate the sound.

But you should try Phantom with CAST.
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2013, 04:10 PM
stock78 stock78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveK View Post
I spoke with my dealer today and there is a chance I can get a great "bundle" deal if I order 400e with Phantom. I have a serious question, based on assumption that 202 = Phantom.

You say 202 is much better than LS27. But, isn't it possible that ARC REF5 SE (or ref10) may provide as much incremental improvement over LS27? They are on different tier within ARC lineup. Maybe there won't be as much improvement going from REF5 SE to Phantom. ARC Ref 10 may even be better than 202

I don't mean to make this Krell vs ARC. I am trying to ascertain the value of "upgrading" from REF5SE to Phantom.

Maybe you are referring more to Krell-Krell synergy being superior to ARC-Krell.

I had Phantom III with 302e, and I definitely felt REF5 with 302e was superior.

I cannot demo Phantom. I have to take a leap of faith and just order it. So, it is a big (but, very delicious) dilemma...
SteveK,

I heard Krell 202 in the very same setup with ARC Ref 5SE and I liked the Ref5SE much better.
Said by an experienced listener with 202 and Phantom that I most probably should like also the Ref5E better than the Phantom, because of the similar sound-character of Phantom with 202.
Thought however that the setup was not ideal for both 202 and Ref 5SE, with poweramp Dartzeel NHB 108, Lumen White speaker, source Copland.
Heard Phantom in another setup.

202 had a somewhat tighter and deeper bass, Ref5SE a more fuller bass.
The high frequencies were more prominent reproduced by 202, which I found sometimes too much.
Midrange was more full-bodied and present with ARC.

Found the total image set by Ref5SE more pleasing with a more coherent and palpable sound, where 202 seems to amplify every single note apart from the other notes, but they failed somewhat to play together. By the Ref5SE I had simply more the feeling of rightness.
Both are very detailed, but the presentation is quite different.

Phantom/202 as well as Ref5SE both are outstanding and when finding the right synergy of the whole setup with these you can't go wrong with either.
Good luck!
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2013, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stock78 View Post
SteveK,

I heard Krell 202 in the very same setup with ARC Ref 5SE and I liked the Ref5SE much better.
Said by an experienced listener with 202 and Phantom that I most probably should like also the Ref5E better than the Phantom, because of the similar sound-character of Phantom with 202.
Thought however that the setup was not ideal for both 202 and Ref 5SE, with poweramp Dartzeel NHB 108, Lumen White speaker, source Copland.
Heard Phantom in another setup.

Good luck!
In that set up I don't know how to make ideas of how it sounds with Krell. To know what to chose you have to try each pre amp to the power amp you have in mind. And try CAST it will make a hole lot of difference. If you like it ore not is up to you, but you have to try it.
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  #20  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:07 PM
SteveK SteveK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stock78 View Post
SteveK,

Found the total image set by Ref5SE more pleasing with a more coherent and palpable sound, where 202 seems to amplify every single note apart from the other notes, but they failed somewhat to play together. By the Ref5SE I had simply more the feeling of rightness.
Both are very detailed, but the presentation is quite different.
I believe I know exactly what you are talking about. I love Krell sound because of its ability to carve out each instrument in its own space. There is no smearing of sounds together. Because of that, it can sounds analytical to some people.

ARC seems to have good balance of both detail and musicality.

Phantom or 202 may be more "accurate" and neutral, which may (or may not) come across as less musical for my taste.

Thank you for your input. I may buy the Phantom and do AB compare with REF5SE and sell either one afterwards Hardest job will be convincing my wife why I need to buy another equipment so soon after getting REF5SE

Last edited by SteveK; 10-12-2013 at 09:05 AM.
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