New review of Ref 75

[JAB]

Originally Posted by TOGA

After a few month with Ref75, the first day that I got it Dafos came to visit me.

He heard it on its first 4 hours . Since then Until last night.. I never wanted to connect Moon W7M
Back in the system anymore.. Until..

I went to have some drink at beer garden with live music playing. Real band playing popular song using
Cheap amps and cheap PA horn speakers .. But there was one thing I think I enjoyed in the sound,
Its the liveliness , the loudness and punchiness. Dynamic of drum and voice. It s something that i think
I don t have from my own expensive tube system.. All ARC make much more lush and smooth sound.
But that is never like live performance.. That make me realize that if i want sound of live performance,ARcsitting
I need to have different kind of system. This make me think about sound of Burmester 077+911 , the sound
That i found very exciting but tiring in long run. But it happen to be closer to real live performance than
ref75.

So now i connect Moon W7M back in. Even from cold start i felt the extra snap and speed. Sharper transient
. Soundstage is much wider almost surround sound like compare to more compact soundstage of ref75.
Noise floor is lower so i hear more into the mix. That what how i felt returning to great solid state amp after months
With lush sounding small power tube.

Ref75 will remain to serve when have mood for romantic and relax sound. But i will have to keep high power
Solid state amp for sound that is closer to live performance. Live performance here is mean the amplified
One. Using PA amp and PA speakers.

Toga

Dear Toga,
Don't rush with the Burmesters. I have two systems ( main one in a dedicated music room & another one in the living room)
Both with Magico Q speakers. Both systems have ARC Ref 40 and Emm Xds1 sitting on SRA stands and cabled with Nordost
Odin PC IC and speaker cables. The main one also has an Arc ref 2 and SME 30/V12 with Koetsu Coralstone cartridge.
The main system has the Q5 speakers which used to amplified by the ref 610s. The living room system has the Q3s with the ref 250s.
After having the 250s, the main system did not sound that great with the ref 610s which resulted in my search for amplifiers that could drive the q5s and still have the liquidity of the tubes. I really wanted the snap and the speed as well. my good dealer lent various amps to try. Among the whole lot the best was the Constellation mono blocks which I have now in the main system.
It works great with the ref 40 and this combo now has all the best of tubes and solid state merged into one.
I also tried the Centaur stereo in the living room system (Q3) which surpassed the resolution and liquidity of the 250s.
Another trial was the constellation preamp with the amps. However, the ref 40 preamp was far superior to the Virgo.
Now I am waiting for Constellation to come up with the black casing to change the living room 250s (WAF).
If you are short of funds the Centaur stereo is a great match with the Q3s, however, the mono blocks are in a different league.
Some of the other amps I tried were Chord 4000, Burmester and Soulition amps. Although these amps were good they did not have the realism snap and liquidity all at the same time like the Constellations.
In the meantime I am enjoying the mono block Centaurs on my Q5s driven by the great ref40.

[Dafos]

Hi toga, first of all, thanks for taking me around the Bangkok audio shops and best of giving me the chance to listen to your wonderful system. I didn't know that the ref 75 was brand new when I heard it. All I can say is considering the size of your room, the ref 75 showed no sign of strain driving the wonderful q3. It was such a memorable evening that when I played some of the cd's I heard at your place thru my Magico Mini, it just didn't have the same presence. So viola, I traded in the Mini for a q3! Difference is I'm using the ref 250 to drive the q3 but I still think your Moon amps, which I didn't get to hear, packs more slam and speed compared to even a 250w tube amp. Nice to hear from you and am glad your hard training is done at least for now.

[Masterlu]

JAB... Welcome!

[Dafos]

Hi Jab, you truly are a Magico lover. What intrigues me is your assertion that the Constellation Centaur handily beat the Ref 250. Makes me want to audition the Constellation amp and compare it to my own 250.

[Felice]

Had the Ref75 one 16Ω speaker tap, I would buy it.
Felice

[Dafos]

Even without the 16ohm tap I believe the ref 75 will be able to properly drive a speaker with a 16 ohm nominal impedance from its 8 ohm tap. Tube amps normally run into problems at lower impedance.

[TOGA]

Hi Dafos, glad you enjoy your q3. My pleasure to take you around. After finish training
I have some more time to listen to music. I think in one year i will have training again
When I move to B777.

Jab, thanks, no i don t think about buying Burmester. I just think that its forceful and
Strong dynamic sound is more similar to small live band playing via small PA system
Than any ARC could hope to do. This is now about watt output. But yes I did think about
Centaur Mono before. Fortunately we just got importer in my country, but unfortunately,
US MSRP got increased again. It s time to do saving for something else in life too.

I have an idea of trying moderate price high sensitivity horn with Ref75. Wanna know how it will sound like in this kind
Of set up. Something like JBL XXXX series such as 4429 or even cheaper Yamaha Pro. Just for fun.

[TOGA]

One thing that Moon W7M is miles ahead of Ref75 is top treble..
with Ref75 all cymbals sound the same while Moon differentiate each
cymbals way better. To be fair, My speaker cables are calibrated to matched
with Moon amp. and clearly unsuitable for hi output Z tube amp.
I will tell about treble performance of Ref75 again when I can
borrow a more generic speaker cables to try.

[mbovaird]

Originally Posted by JAB

Dear Toga,
Don't rush with the Burmesters. I have two systems ( main one in a dedicated music room & another one in the living room)
Both with Magico Q speakers. Both systems have ARC Ref 40 and Emm Xds1 sitting on SRA stands and cabled with Nordost
Odin PC IC and speaker cables. The main one also has an Arc ref 2 and SME 30/V12 with Koetsu Coralstone cartridge.
The main system has the Q5 speakers which used to amplified by the ref 610s. The living room system has the Q3s with the ref 250s.
After having the 250s, the main system did not sound that great with the ref 610s which resulted in my search for amplifiers that could drive the q5s and still have the liquidity of the tubes. I really wanted the snap and the speed as well. my good dealer lent various amps to try. Among the whole lot the best was the Constellation mono blocks which I have now in the main system.
It works great with the ref 40 and this combo now has all the best of tubes and solid state merged into one.
I also tried the Centaur stereo in the living room system (Q3) which surpassed the resolution and liquidity of the 250s.
Another trial was the constellation preamp with the amps. However, the ref 40 preamp was far superior to the Virgo.
Now I am waiting for Constellation to come up with the black casing to change the living room 250s (WAF).
If you are short of funds the Centaur stereo is a great match with the Q3s, however, the mono blocks are in a different league.
Some of the other amps I tried were Chord 4000, Burmester and Soulition amps. Although these amps were good they did not have the realism snap and liquidity all at the same time like the Constellations.
In the meantime I am enjoying the mono block Centaurs on my Q5s driven by the great ref40.

JAB - have you ever heard your Q5's and REF40 preamp with Pass amps? I'd be very curious.

Mike

[JAB]

Originally Posted by mbovaird

JAB - have you ever heard your Q5's and REF40 preamp with Pass amps? I'd be very curious.

Mike

Unfortunately no. There is no dealer that I know of that keeps one for demo in my area. Have you tried them?

JAB