Magico Q and Pass Labs XA.5 Synergy

[S1chen]

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

I recently purchased a pair of Pass Labs XA200.5's and am trying to decide between the S5 and Q5 as the next step in my system plans (described below).

My primary question is will 400 watts of Class A be able to get the most of the Q5's? Will the Pass Amp's be "exposed" by the resolution of the Q5 in a negative way as is discussed so much in various threads?

I am particularly interested in whether the XA200.5 will: 1) have the backbone to handle the difficult impedance curve and phase angles of the Q5's, 2) add a little needed (to my ear) warmth to the Q sound and, 3) have the speed and control to show off the Q5's remarkable capabilities.

I suspect I could worry about these issues a little less with the S5 given their easier load and bass voicing. I know other amps may excel in certain of these areas, but I have chosen the XA200.5's as my anchor (against the recommended protocols of some) because I just cant find anything I like as much as Nelson's Class A.


As background:

I listen to most genre's from classical to rock and have a particular preference for accurate, lifelike orchestral and acoustic and exceptional low level detail.

To give insight to my preferences, my second place Amp was the Dag Momentum. I just can't find a substitute for the magic of pure Class A (also have 24 foot ceiling peak and air return at peak to basement to remove heat).

Room 20' by 30' with 24' foot center vault ceiling.

Preamp - CJ GAT or Pass XP-30 (to be determined)

DAC - MSB Analog or DACIV Signature (to be determined)

Front End - MSB UMT Plus (digital only)

SC and IC's - need help


Unfortunately my dealer only has the XA160.5 and Q3 in house. I will need to travel to listen to the options but want to get some perspective from experienced ears first.


Thank you for your perspective,


Paul

Q5 and S5 are totally different level of play field and if you can afford the Q5 and with your room size, type of music. Either you get the Q5 and enjoy the beautiful transparent sound and live with a clean tight bass or you can also consider the wilson Maxx 3. OK, no offend but I just think they you may end up more enjoying playing loud with your powerful passlab XA200.5. You likely to be more happy jumping up and down with your rock concert, hear the majestic scale of a classical concert with the Maxx 3 effortlessly than power hungry Q5.

Q5 do have its beautiful and I feel that Magico speaker tend to very outstanding with fast, solo or small scale instrument playback and you can hear their emotion of the musician playing their instrument. However, their weak link is lack of dynamic and when you compare the magico with another say wilson and you listen to rock concert to classical concert.... you know you are not transport to the live venue. The tight bass lack of bloom and we all know live concert sound don't sound tight in the hall due to the hall acoustic. So if you are willing to adjust your listening to accept this limitation and enjoy the transparency and speed of the instrument playback, Magico is hard to beat.

S5 is a compromised Magico and they prefer to stick to their idea of sealed box to get some bloom over the very fast Q series with the more heavy cone woofer. But I feel that either I stay with the fast Q series or I go with the bloom box Wilson. Nevertheless, our opinion can only give you a guide line and you have to listen for yourselves and see what most suit your cup of tea.

[CLEE]

Given the room size, it may be worthwhile to consider the more drastic move of going to the Q7. You wouldn't need the subs, and the XA200.5 should be able to drive the Q7 competently.

[FlexibleAudio]

Originally Posted by S1chen

Q5 and S5 are totally different level of play field and if you can afford the Q5 and with your room size, type of music. Either you get the Q5 and enjoy the beautiful transparent sound and live with a clean tight bass or you can also consider the wilson Maxx 3. OK, no offend but I just think they you may end up more enjoying playing loud with your powerful passlab XA200.5. You likely to be more happy jumping up and down with your rock concert, hear the majestic scale of a classical concert with the Maxx 3 effortlessly than power hungry Q5.

Q5 do have its beautiful and I feel that Magico speaker tend to very outstanding with fast, solo or small scale instrument playback and you can hear their emotion of the musician playing their instrument. However, their weak link is lack of dynamic and when you compare the magico with another say wilson and you listen to rock concert to classical concert.... you know you are not transport to the live venue. The tight bass lack of bloom and we all know live concert sound don't sound tight in the hall due to the hall acoustic. So if you are willing to adjust your listening to accept this limitation and enjoy the transparency and speed of the instrument playback, Magico is hard to beat.

S5 is a compromised Magico and they prefer to stick to their idea of sealed box to get some bloom over the very fast Q series with the more heavy cone woofer. But I feel that either I stay with the fast Q series or I go with the bloom box Wilson. Nevertheless, our opinion can only give you a guide line and you have to listen for yourselves and see what most suit your cup of tea.

Thanks S1Chen, those are very insightful comments. Interestingly, in a conversation I had with Irv Gross at Magico, when I made the statement that the S5 is basically meant to be a "Wilson killer" he whole-heartedly concurred.

I am enamored with the Q3's somewhat singular resolving character and feel I want to go the Q direction but with more low-end extension. My dilemma at the moment is whether 400 watts of Class A into 4 ohms with an additional 6db of head room in Class AB after leaving Class A and 48 amps of current is enough to get the most from the Q5's. (Remembering the XA200.5 is essentially the same amp as the 1000 watt Pass X1000.5 which also has 48 amps of current except for bias to achieve Class A.)

I realize I must take a plain ride to assess this personally but input from Q5 owners is surely welcome.

CLEE - Great idea but not in my budget.

[FlexibleAudio]

Originally Posted by Penthouse-D

Before you consider that, do the numbers. Those Magico subs are not cheap. May bring you to a new level. Maybe some big Focals. I've listened to Q3s numerous times and always walked away perplexed.

Jim,

The sub idea would be an incremental step budget and time wise and done only if needed.

Can you elaborate on the Q3's perplexing you? (I find your comment interesting given you owned the Q5 and now own the S5.)

As far as Focals go, my wife is more selective about aesthetics than life partners....Focal and Wilson are unfortunately out. I on the other hand would love to evaluate those options further, but pretty much have her dialed into a more traditional look. Oh, and I do love the Magicos.

[Penthouse-D]

I heard the Q3s at Goodwins. I listened to them for a while. To me, they were incredibly "lean". I just couldn't see the hype, nor the value. I tried again elsewhere under different circumstances, same thing. May I ad, when you have a less than stellar recording, forget it. I truly suggest you audition everything you are considering, spending as much time as possible and listening to every type of music. Keep in mind, the Q series are coming up for sale fairly often. The resale vrs list is quite shocking. I was extremely fortunate. Lastly, if your dealer has 3's and 160's, I think you will get the general idea of what they would sound like with your 200's. I think the Q3s and Q5s are the first generation of a series of improving products. The 5's are great when the moon is in line with jupiter. When you are powering them with the correct gear. Ask yourself why the 7's a much larger speaker with much larger drivers are more efficient? Then again, WTF do I know? It's only an opinion, but I did have the Q5s for a while. Buy what you think sounds great!

[Ritmo]

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

Jim,

Focal and Wilson are unfortunately out. I on the other hand would love to evaluate those options further, but pretty much have her dialed into a more traditional look. Oh, and I do love the Magicos.

Ok, too bad, I was going to suggest you try the Wilson Alexias. They sound incredible and would be a super match with the XA200.5s.

[FlexibleAudio]

Originally Posted by Penthouse-D

I heard the Q3s at Goodwins. I listened to them for a while. To me, they were incredibly "lean". I just couldn't see the hype, nor the value. I tried again elsewhere under different circumstances, same thing. May I ad, when you have a less than stellar recording, forget it. I truly suggest you audition everything you are considering, spending as much time as possible and listening to every type of music. Keep in mind, the Q series are coming up for sale fairly often. The resale vrs list is quite shocking. I was extremely fortunate. Lastly, if your dealer has 3's and 160's, I think you will get the general idea of what they would sound like with your 200's. I think the Q3s and Q5s are the first generation of a series of improving products. The 5's are great when the moon is in line with jupiter. When you are powering them with the correct gear. Ask yourself why the 7's a much larger speaker with much larger drivers are more efficient? Then again, WTF do I know? It's only an opinion, but I did have the Q5s for a while. Buy what you think sounds great!

Ok, you have convinced me I must get on a plane to hear the S5's. Thanks Jim.

[PlanarSpeakerFan]

Originally Posted by Ritmo

Ok, too bad, I was going to suggest you try the Wilson Alexias. They sound incredible and would be a super match with the XA200.5s.

Hi Mike,

And I would add that they look quite attractive in your room.

Ken