AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Turntables & Vinyl > Turntables & Tonearms

Turntables & Tonearms Where Analog still Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:27 PM
PMCH's Avatar
PMCH PMCH is online now
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,320
Default

I found that I preferred the sound of perfect vinyl pressings with no pops or scratches. I just couldn't handle the aggravation of playing vinyl.
__________________
Paul

McIntosh C1100, MC2301 (2), Esoteric K-01x, Sonus Faber Stradavaris, Berkeley Alpha DAC Ref. Series 2 MQA, Berkeley Alpha USB, Aurender N10, Synergistic Research & Audience power conditioners, AZ Absolute Copper Interconnects, AZ Absolute Speaker Cables, AZ Gargantua II & Krakatoa PCs, Stillpoints & Symposium shelves under everything
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:10 AM
Formerly YB-2's Avatar
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
Retired


 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ Shore
Posts: 5,211
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62caddy View Post
Personally I've found the mastering and engineering techniques that had been used in creating the original recording far more critical to performance than format type.

In the few cases in which I possess the identical recordings on both vinyl and CD, the material had been remastered in the CD version making true apples-to-apples comparisons difficult and to my ears, the better of the two could be either format. I guess what I'm trying to say is that after many years of listening and experimenting, I still haven't been able to affirmatively resolve the question one way or the other...

That said, digital formats do hold the technological edge in respect to noise, speed variance and wear which may, or may not always be objectionable.
Eric - Agree with your mastering & engineering thoughts. Wondering if you have given any thought to an MC cartridge (LOMC if your preamp can handle, HOMC if not)? Have found that they are generally less susceptible to surface noise. Also found that the AT150 is a big step up from the 440.
__________________
Glenn...
Audeze LCD-3 Bryston B-60R Canton Ref 9K Clearaudio SM Pro Denon DP-80 w/Lyra Kleos, Ortofon K-b & 2M Blk, AT33R & AT150Ti Kenwood L-07M mono-blocks Mark Levinson No. 383 Oppo 203 Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk Sennheiser HD650 Sony ST-J75 Stax UA-7/CF SurgeX XR-315 Woo WA6 Gen 1 WW Eclipse 8/7 Pt, Au, Ag, Mini(x2), Starlight & Nano
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:45 AM
62caddy's Avatar
62caddy 62caddy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formerly YB-2 View Post
Eric - Agree with your mastering & engineering thoughts. Wondering if you have given any thought to an MC cartridge (LOMC if your preamp can handle, HOMC if not)? Have found that they are generally less susceptible to surface noise. Also found that the AT150 is a big step up from the 440.
I had considered that route Glenn but since vinyl accounts for ~ 10% of my listening, it's difficult to justify the added costs - at least that LO MC would entail. I've been happy with the 440 MLa - especially its tracking, which was immediately apparent on inner grooves when I first installed it. Records I had considered unlistenable (IGD was horrible on some) the difference it made was dramatic.

Good to know about the AT150. That might be worth considering.
__________________
MAIN: McIntosh: MC2125 (2), MC2155, C32, MR80, MQ101, CR7 MPI4, Polk: RTiA7, RTiA9; Snell J7; Pioneer PL 518; A/T 440MLa; Yamaha CD S300
VINTAGE: McIntosh: MX113, MC2505, CR7; Altec Model 14; Boston T1000; Yamaha: CDX 393, Pioneer PL 518 A/T 440MLa
OTHER: MAC1500, MX110, MC240
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-06-2018, 02:41 PM
mulveling mulveling is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 499
Default

I agree the mastering/engineering that actually ends up on either format is a key factor; probably even the MOST key factor. But for me, time and time again I keep finding vinyl placing significantly ahead of digital overall. That said, over several years now I've pushed my vinyl gear further towards the "ultra" category while my digital remains stagnant in the hifi "budget" tier (e.g. Yggdrasil, M51, etc) - so no, it's not a fair comparison. But when I got my first vinyl rig, similarly priced to my Meridian G08 CD player at the time, and the vinyl absolutely *spanked* the G08 (which was ironically sold to me as the CD player for vinyl lovers) - my affection for digital never recovered from that.

I also have problems dropping 5-figures plus on digital gear that depreciates nearly as fast as spent wine. My ClearAudio Innovation and SOTA tables are still beasts after several years. How many iterations of players have the Esoterics of the digital world gone through in that time? The cartridge is certainly the loss-of-value pain point in vinyl, but when well taken care of they can last a LONG time.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-06-2018, 04:55 PM
bigblue's Avatar
bigblue bigblue is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 498
Default

For me the definitive tipping point was listening to both digital and analog sources at equal price points (25 000 USD) in a top of the line set up with a pair of The Sonus Faber speakers at a friend of mine. No matter what CD we played on the MSB rig, the vinyl on the Brinkmann Balance sounded way better. Yes, the digital was more perfect. The same way a mannequin is perfect. And in that context the analog was more human. Which to me is more interesting.
But in the end it is a personal choice. "Go with the format that suits your taste".
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-06-2018, 05:32 PM
Mikado463's Avatar
Mikado463 Mikado463 is online now
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SE Pa
Posts: 3,574
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlu View Post
Absolutely, just be prepared to spend an awful lot of money to surpass vinyl. Specifically, 5~10 x more, YMMV.
gotta disagree with you here Ivan, whereas the best analog front ends are well into the five figures and in some cases six, no way does a top flight digital front require you to spend that much let alone 5 to 10 times more.
__________________
Cheers .......Dave
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-06-2018, 06:08 PM
Formerly YB-2's Avatar
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
Retired


 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ Shore
Posts: 5,211
Default

Digital. Vinyl. Depends on what I want to listen to. As an opera fan, to my ears no digital recording I can think of compares favorably to the same recording in vinyl. That said, digital is better than it has ever been and continues to get better. Especially SACD and Japanese pressings. For casual listening it is hard to beat the convenience of digital.
__________________
Glenn...
Audeze LCD-3 Bryston B-60R Canton Ref 9K Clearaudio SM Pro Denon DP-80 w/Lyra Kleos, Ortofon K-b & 2M Blk, AT33R & AT150Ti Kenwood L-07M mono-blocks Mark Levinson No. 383 Oppo 203 Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk Sennheiser HD650 Sony ST-J75 Stax UA-7/CF SurgeX XR-315 Woo WA6 Gen 1 WW Eclipse 8/7 Pt, Au, Ag, Mini(x2), Starlight & Nano
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-06-2018, 06:34 PM
62caddy's Avatar
62caddy 62caddy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,000
Default

Speaking of opera, I have a number of vinyl sets dating back to the mid 1960s on the old London ffrr label, the majority of which have a rich "robust" sound that I really enjoy.

Just recently I bought a CD re-release of "L'Elisir d'Amore" to replace the tired and worn vinyl of the exact same recording and to my disappointment, there was ever-so-slight a tinge of "shrillness" in Luciano's voice that didn't seem to be present in the vinyl version. Still had all the fortitude though.
__________________
MAIN: McIntosh: MC2125 (2), MC2155, C32, MR80, MQ101, CR7 MPI4, Polk: RTiA7, RTiA9; Snell J7; Pioneer PL 518; A/T 440MLa; Yamaha CD S300
VINTAGE: McIntosh: MX113, MC2505, CR7; Altec Model 14; Boston T1000; Yamaha: CDX 393, Pioneer PL 518 A/T 440MLa
OTHER: MAC1500, MX110, MC240

Last edited by 62caddy; 12-06-2018 at 06:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:21 PM
Formerly YB-2's Avatar
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
Retired


 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ Shore
Posts: 5,211
Default

Is that the Richard Bonynge recording with Joan Sutherland? Is excellent.
I'm fortunate in having many RCA Reds from days of yore. My most prized recordings.
__________________
Glenn...
Audeze LCD-3 Bryston B-60R Canton Ref 9K Clearaudio SM Pro Denon DP-80 w/Lyra Kleos, Ortofon K-b & 2M Blk, AT33R & AT150Ti Kenwood L-07M mono-blocks Mark Levinson No. 383 Oppo 203 Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk Sennheiser HD650 Sony ST-J75 Stax UA-7/CF SurgeX XR-315 Woo WA6 Gen 1 WW Eclipse 8/7 Pt, Au, Ag, Mini(x2), Starlight & Nano
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:32 PM
Masterlu's Avatar
Masterlu Masterlu is online now
AA Founder, Legend AV Owner



 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South FL & Cape Cod MA
Posts: 68,883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
gotta disagree with you here Ivan, whereas the best analog front ends are well into the five figures and in some cases six, no way does a top flight digital front require you to spend that much let alone 5 to 10 times more.
Dave... I have all the gear here, and youíre welcome to visit.
__________________
Ivan
FLORIDA
MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A250 AMPS, C3850 PRE-AMP, DP950 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC950 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-58 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
CAPE COD

MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO, FORTRESS SEATING, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1/D1 STACK, G01X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) PS AUDIO P20, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1 CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1ís, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000T/PS8, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Bryston/Esoteric System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS, BIT-15(2) AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E650 INTEGRATED, DP560 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3ís, CANTON REF K5ís, SILENZIO, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WIREWORLD GOLD CABLES
Bryston Active System: BP26 PRE-AMP, MPS2 POWER SUPPLY, BAX-1 CROSSOVER, BDA-3 DAC, BDP-3 PLAYER, BCD-3 CD PLAYER, BIT15(2), MODEL T ACTIVE SPEAKERS, 21B3 CUBED AMPS, SILENZIO, TARGET RACK, WIREWORLD SILVER CABLES
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:45 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2019 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Acoustic Sciences Corportation
Acoustic Sciences Corportation
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Accuphase
Accuphase