Vinyl rules !!!!!

[AudioNut]

For the past 2-3 months, I've been absorbed with listening to CD's and SACD's and have virtually ignored my turntables and vinyl. :sorry-3:

Today, for the past several hours, I've been listening to nothing but LP's and I am totally amazed at how much better black discs, on a good turntable, sound than silver discs.

My "main" table is a Basis Debut V, with the vacuum "hold down" system, with a Graham Phantom arm and Graham Nightingale cartridge, playing through a Pass X-Ono phono stage in the "main system" as shown below.

The most obvious difference is in the soundstaging and imaging. All of a sudden, the stage has opened up in every direction. Sound appears from space many feet outside of the speakers. Truly wall to wall and then some. The stage stretches without interruption all across the front of the room. Voices appear, incredibly lifelike, from space high above the tops of the speakers. Close your eyes and the singer is in the room with you. Instrument placement is exact and correct. Some instruments appear to come from space in front of the speakers, while others seem to come from beyond the walls - deep into my back yard. This stuff is GREAT!



I am left breathless from the experience. I'm glad that I have lots of records, maybe I'll play all of them before I go back to digital. CD's are easier, you don't have to get up as often to turn them over or whatever, They take up less space, but, folks, they just don't sound as good as records.

[Still-One]

Everyone has their own opinion.

Glad you are happy.
Jim

[vintage_tube]

Originally Posted by jprice

My "main" table is a Basis Debut V, with the vacuum "hold down" system, with a Graham Phantom arm and Graham Nightingale cartridge, playing through a Pass X-Ono phono stage in the "main system" as shown below.
The most obvious difference is in the soundstaging and imaging. All of a sudden, the stage has opened up in every direction. Sound appears from space many feet outside of the speakers. Truly wall to wall and then some. The stage stretches without interruption all across the front of the room. Voices appear, incredibly lifelike, from space high above the tops of the speakers. Close your eyes and the singer is in the room with you. Instrument placement is exact and correct. Some instruments appear to come from space in front of the speakers, while others seem to come from beyond the walls - deep into my back yard. This stuff is GREAT!
I am left breathless from the experience. I'm glad that I have lots of records, maybe I'll play all of them before I go back to digital. CD's are easier, you don't have to get up as often to turn them over or whatever, They take up less space, but, folks, they just don't sound as good as records.

Very nice rig and agree with your assessment all the way around.

Originally Posted by Stillone

Everyone has their own opinion.
Glad you are happy.
Jim

I don’t know why you comment on this format – your opinion is very well known and is crystallized in stone. I'm glad your glad he's happy though.

Bob

[PHC1]

The more time I spend with vinyl, the more I am convinced of the same thing. Vinyl does rule for the most part. I do find some digital material to be on par with vinyl but it is far and few in between. Some XRCDs are easily the match for my best vinyl and it makes sense considering the source and the process of mastering, especially when fed through the Ayre CDP with MP filters.

Other than not having some surface noise, clicks and pops, (if the vinyl has them), there is nothing that makes the silver disc better though. It is still a digital reconstruction of an analog wave form with many steps, it is still often created from an analog master tape so dynamic range argument has very little weight... it is still plagued by jitter and pre and post ringing artifacts with many CDPs... It is still flat and 2 dimensional by comparison to vinyl...

Jim may not be able to appreciate some of this since his speakers are not of the pinpoint imaging variety, he does not like tubes which breathe life into dimensionality of playback system so it is quite possible he simply does not hear the advantages in his own system between the two media.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by vintage_tube

Very nice rig and agree with your assessment all the way around.




I don’t know why you comment on this format – your opinion is very well known and is crystallized in stone. I'm glad your glad he's happy though.

Bob

Because that is what a Forum is for, comments. If we all want to sit here and nod in agreement like a Fremer Booble-Head when someone makes a statement such as they just don't sound as good as records. then we are wasting our time. We actually could use more individuals adding their voice to this site, we need to add more chromosomes to this gene pool.

Jim

[vintage_tube]

Originally Posted by Stillone

Because that is what a Forum is for, comments. If we all want to sit here and nod in agreement like a Fremer Booble-Head when someone makes a statement such as they just don't sound as good as records. then we are wasting our time.

Jim

Here is a guy with a costly & above average rig & one which sat idle for awhile of which he revisited. His conclusion is his opinion granted, but the comment "everyone has their opinion" just pooped all over his excitement.

Bob

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Stillone

Because that is what a Forum is for, comments. If we all want to sit here and nod in agreement like a Fremer Booble-Head when someone makes a statement such as they just don't sound as good as records. then we are wasting our time. We actually could use more individuals adding their voice to this site, we need to add more chromosomes to this gene pool.

Jim

Fremer Booble Head??? Good one Jim...

Jim, you can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool them all as they say. Judging by just how many are involved with vinyl these days and I am not just talking about one reviewer but countless audiophiles that discover the same thing, the amount of new vinyl being pressed, the amount of turntables available from different sources, c'mmon, you can't say that everyone has gone nuts...

Jim, have you ever thought that at the very best, the only thing a CD can do in the end, once all the digital nasties are finally if ever are resolved is to resemble an analog waveform that has been present on tape and vinyl since day one?

The argument as to how many CDs are sold vs vinyl is not a fair comparison by the way, there are many who purchase the CDs that are not audiophiles while vinyl is primarily purchased by audiophiles, especially the new, costly pressings.


Dynamic range? Yes, better with CD/SACD but that is not where the bulk of industry is going with it, certainly not into quality. Loudness mastering is more like it and there are tons of articles written about it. Yes, I have albums of both, the vinyl blows a lot of CDs out of the water with its dynamic range. There has actually been an article written why vinyl may actually have better dynamic range but I can't find it of the top of my head. I'll look for it.

Why does an XRCD sound so good? What does it try to do or mimic? Ah, yes, analog.... Analog master tapes, least amount of jitter, glass masters for pressing each XRCD.. Does it make it better than vinyl? Only if vinyl is poorly manufactured or has seen better days.

[wpines]

Originally Posted by Stillone

Because that is what a Forum is for, comments. If we all want to sit here and nod in agreement like a Fremer Booble-Head when someone makes a statement such as they just don't sound as good as records. then we are wasting our time. We actually could use more individuals adding their voice to this site, we need to add more chromosomes to this gene pool.

Jim

[PHC1]

So can you silver disc worshipers give an example of what is the advantage of a CD when it comes to recreating an analog waveform captured by microphone onto an analog tape and then remastered onto a silver disc with many ones and zeros, tiny little steps that are still a digital stepped version of a completely smooth analog waveform?

Higher quality from higher resolution? Absolutely, higher resolution is the future of the silver disc/hard drive sourced musical content but it is still a digital stepped waveform, albeit with progressively smaller steps. Will jitter disappear eventually? Possibly.

Will the industry stop making loudness mastered versions of digital music? Unlikely, the mid-fi, iPod generation does not have gear that can reproduce dynamic range properly... the lower bit rate/dynamic range compressed recordings are much easier to play back on iPods. They sound like crap but most people don't know the difference anyways. If it sounds loud, it must be great, clipped peaks and all.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by vintage_tube

Here is a guy with a costly & above average rig & one which sat idle for awhile of which he revisited. His conclusion is his opinion granted, but the comment "everyone has their opinion" just pooped all over his excitement.

Bob

Read my response any way you wish. I am glad he is happy. You do not see me knocking anyone's gear here, nor do I try and push what I own on others. I have always said there are a lot of ways to get great sound out of a system but saying that A is always better than B is poop, as you put it.