LS27 & REF 5 gain question

[markmck79]

Haha. I have a somewhat different opinion of the LS27 gain settings... The low sounds a little dead to me. Depending on the source I use medium or high settings. I only run fully balanced. Interestingly, the user's manual recommends using the highest setting that doesn't cause audible distortion. I'm using mine to gain match my inputs, as the ARC DAC8 is a little hotter than the SACD. The DAC is on Medium and the SACD is on High.

I haven't heard the 27 compared to 5 head-on, but I have heard both at different times in the same system. The most objective thing I can say is that the 27 is quieter and has better bass control. The 5 might have had a bit more midrange magic, but it was a close race and the quiet of the 27 was very nice. Ultimately my dealer sold his REF5 demo to carry the REF40 and LS27.

[turntable]

That is good to know Mark. Each system is going to sound different, so having the 3 gain settings is pretty good and flexible.

I can guess the LS27 has better bass control and is quieter as it had ss rectification. That is what I want, so I have no real desire to listen to the ref5 as I have more than enough midrange magic now.

Besides the LS27 looks a lot kooler with the round buttons.

Cheers

[cmalak]

Shane...what combo are you using the LS-27 with? Have you bought it or are you auditioning it? Just curious.

[turntable]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Shane...what combo are you using the LS-27 with? Have you bought it or are you auditioning it? Just curious.

Auditioning Cyril

I have too much of a good thing at the moment with the cj gear, warm strads and room nodes around the 100-125hz range.
Can't really afford to replace speakers, so looking at the amps side with a leaner sound. Hence the arc LS27 pre amp. Art3 has a more magic, but really needs to be with a leaner speaker like Wilson, dynaudio etc.

Also have a mark levinson 532h that stereophile just raved about. It sounds nice, however my cj prem8a's are a lot more open, dynamic, lifelike and seemingly more powerful. I will need to spend a lot more $$ to get better ss synergy than my prem8a's. If i had the $$ the solution amp like Howie I would anticipate woul be perfect.

I am hopefully going to try a Lyngdorf rp-1 next week to see what that does.

Cheers

[VT Skier]

As a Dyn owner who's looking to tame some of that leanness, have you compared your ART to the ACT 2 or any of the newer CJ pre-amps? Is the ART significantly warmer?

After bothering Jeff (tonepub) and Stephen (Puma Cat) about this, I was leaning toward an ARC REF 5 to mate with my Simaudio W-7, but was planning to demo an ACT 2 at Spearit in the next week or so. The ART seems to be an impossibility just because I assume no one will have one to demo, although I haven't asked the guys at Spearit.

[Tonepub]

Originally Posted by markmck79

Haha. I have a somewhat different opinion of the LS27 gain settings... The low sounds a little dead to me. Depending on the source I use medium or high settings. I only run fully balanced. Interestingly, the user's manual recommends using the highest setting that doesn't cause audible distortion. I'm using mine to gain match my inputs, as the ARC DAC8 is a little hotter than the SACD. The DAC is on Medium and the SACD is on High.

I haven't heard the 27 compared to 5 head-on, but I have heard both at different times in the same system. The most objective thing I can say is that the 27 is quieter and has better bass control. The 5 might have had a bit more midrange magic, but it was a close race and the quiet of the 27 was very nice. Ultimately my dealer sold his REF5 demo to carry the REF40 and LS27.

That's why it's always so important to get a good demo at this level...

[VT Skier]

No kidding. I'm just too lazy to drive the 150 miles to Massachusetts, but I've vowed to do so over Labor Day weekend if not sooner.

Based on your help, I seem to be leaning toward the REF 5 first, then the CJ ACT2 S2, then the Octave 500 or the CJ ET5. I'm going to forget about warmth and just go with what I think sounds best, assuming I'll upgrade from the Sapphires to the Futuras at some point in the next year or so. And maybe to the REF 150 as well. I don't want to have Turntable's problem with too much warmth.

If I go with the Octave, I think it will be a total leap of faith. I doubt I'll have a chance to listen to one, other than at RMAF or CES.

[turntable]

Originally Posted by VT Skier

As a Dyn owner who's looking to tame some of that leanness, have you compared your ART to the ACT 2 or any of the newer CJ pre-amps? Is the ART significantly warmer?

After bothering Jeff (tonepub) and Stephen (Puma Cat) about this, I was leaning toward an ARC REF 5 to mate with my Simaudio W-7, but was planning to demo an ACT 2 at Spearit in the next week or so. The ART seems to be an impossibility just because I assume no one will have one to demo, although I haven't asked the guys at Spearit.

Hi VT

Yes I have heard the Act2 and CT5. At the time there was no question the ART and ART3 was a lot better sounding in my system. More pure, tonally correct, huge floating soundstage and better bass weight.
Significantly warmer ? warmer yes, significantly you could hear a more natural tone yes, but significant is subjective to the listeners tone of his system and the time, his musical preferences etc..
I am not sure I would feel the same way today, considering I am enjoying the ARC LS-27.

It would seem that the sound of the speakers (especially when full range) and the interface with room has a significantly more input to the final sound than the pre amp/amps. My Strads took 3 years to fully blossum in the bass, so they went from slightly lean to quite full. So what sounds great now, may not neccessarily stay the same in a couple of years time due to many factors. I guess that is why we change gear so often right

low bass issues are a lot harder to fix than anything over say 250hz, so in my case the ART3 may have to go. my loss will be someone else's huge gain. As I said above, the ART3 will be perfect for a more lean/neutral speaker. I am not sure if i can push my dealers ralationship to try a pair of Wilson sasha's for instance.

cheers

[PHC1]

Shane, I am very familiar with Strads and even more familiar with Sasha and other Wilson since I had three pairs.

Two very different flavors for sure. The Strads for the most part override any small and even not so small differences in SS amps. They will impart their SF flavor each and every time. I derive great satisfaction out of listening to Strads at my dealer with very fast and neutral amps like Krell. The balance is very tasty. I did the same in my theater with Elipsa and Bryston, also very, very nice albeit a little more neutral and less sweet.

Sasha are true "chameleons" of the speaker world. You will never get the same response from them with different amps and systems. This is either good or bad, depends how much you want to play with different gear and chase that elusive nirvana and perfect synergy. I found perfect balance with Lamm M1.2's, loved the Ayre KXR/MXR combo with them, loved the with D'Agostino Momentum monoblocks and didn't care for any Wilson speakers with Krell at all. Going tubes is a gamble with Sasha, 1.8 ohm dip and even some SS amps will shudder.

In terms of bass, do you have or are you willing to get bass traps? Bass issues and extra midbass warmth can be a bit of work to dial out but is completely doable.

If you've been happy with the Strads all these years, why not dual out the issues and go on enjoying them for many more?

[turntable]

Hi Serge

yes, the Strads do impart their personality very much. I luv the absolute musicality of the Strads and their ability to listen all day without fatigue, but the bass issues are a PITA as they muddy up a lot.

I have thought of Krell, however my main dealer does not stk Krell and they are expensive!! not quite so easy to buy/sell large amps in Australia. BTW Serge, what Krell amps does your dealer recommend as a minimum to control the Strads - current or older models ?

I do have DIY bass traps sort of (big lumps of ugly batts at the moment), however my room is not so easy. In 3 out of the 5 corners are LP cabinets and the 4th is a door. very difficult to put bass traps in the corners without MAJOR room changes. I am currently doing a few changes in my room with furniture and cabinets ( too many) to reduce that so I can move my speakers further into the room, of more specifically my listening position back more. This has so far helped quite a bit.

probably what I will try and do is move all the LP cabinets out into the room somewhat and put 100 mm fibreglass/poly batts with a gap to the wall. that is supposed to be quite good. any bass issues from 125hz down are hard to deal with. might need to get a professional in, but not sure I want the truth

all good fun thou.