AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Audio & Video > Subwoofers

Subwoofers 80hz and Down under!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-12-2016, 05:18 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nashville, TN.
Posts: 548
Default SVS SB16 compared to JL Audio F113v2

This is the continuation of a thread I started in the Revel section. I think it's probably better suited to this section so I've moved the conversation here. Here is a link to the initial discussion LINK

My comparison of these products and their suitability to my priorities is somewhat clearer and was made more quickly by far than I had anticipated. Of course, my observations and conclusions will not be the same for all rooms or all tastes. But for me, the differences between the SVS SB16 and the JL Audio F113v2 can be quantified fairly clearly. It should be noted that those of us who believe a break in period is useful to assess final performance may wish to wait for a forthcoming update as my brand new F113v2 is being compared to the SB16 that has had more time in use. I had planned to wait before writing this, but the differences are marked enough out of the box to post initial impressions I think I can stand by.

Plenty has been inked about the JL Fathoms over the years so I won't rehash what you can easily find elsewhere. The SVS SB16s are new to the market so I'll spend more time on them. The SB 16 is a sealed enclosure with a 16" woofer of heroic dimensions. It has an 8" ! voice coil and massive magnet structure with a claimed 65mm of excursion. The voice coil is overhung with a unique motor structure. For more info on that, visit SVS' website. The amplifier (Class D) delivers 1500 watts RMS with peak output to 5000 watts. It is very well executed in gloss black, impressively weighty at 130 pounds or so and is extremely well finished. I find no important difference in actual fit or finish quality but will note I like the way the JL's amp looks with it's heat sinking and terrific finish. It's a guy thing. The JL's external packaging/shipping is more sophisticated but both products are very well protected for shipping. Included with the SB16 are a remote control and a very handy and comprehensive control app that can be installed on your phone or pad (android or IOS). The SVS SB16 sells for $2000 delivered to your door and is backed by a five year warranty and a full refund if returned for any reason within 45 days. SVS has a battery of other customer benefits and has been a pleasure to deal with. See photo for size differences between these two top line devices.



SVS SB16 In Use

Off the bat, if your number one measures of performance are deepest extension and highest output at a relative bargain price, look no further than the SVS. It has tremendous output for a sealed sub, or any subwoofer for that matter. I initially placed the sub in a corner outboard of my left Salon2. My room is 22 by 16 with 9.5 foot ceilings or about 3300cf. Leaving aside questions of smoothing overall frequency response or nulls, a single SB 16 is all and more than I would ever need for music as far as level or extension is concerned.

However I couldn't obtain an integration that made me completely happy with music with the sub located in the corner. The output from this amazing beast simply overwhelmed the room at higher levels. At lower levels performance in excess to the exceptional "naked" bass of the Salon2s proved difficult to achieve with my limited experience in this room. Once I moved the sub out of the corner and onto the long wall about two feet in front of the main speakers (woofer firing along the long wall), things snapped into much better focus. I set the low pass filter at 24dB per octave (matches Revel's crossovers) and 31Hz. With judicious use of the level control, I obtained satisfying and rich bass with incredible extension and power depending on how hard I wanted to push the sub. Watching BluRays or streamed films, sound effects, cannon fire, sci fi cockamamie and door slams were shockingly strong.

The app is excellent giving full control of every parameter. There's a very nice user adjustable three band parametric eq, full level and low pass control, variable room compensation, presets, and more and all are accessible from your listening position. This is in contrast to the JL which has to be adjusted at the front panel but which includes sophisticated DARO room compensation and a calibrated mic.

JL Fathom F113v2

OK, so how did the JL fare against this impressive newcomer? Quite well actually. Since so many professional reviewers have written about the JL I'll be brief here. It was a lot easier to dial the JL into my room. Placed exactly where the SVS finally landed and out of the box, bass from the JL was tighter, more tuneful and more musical, at least as far as I judge bass tone. I'm pretty sure the JL will not outperform the SVS for home theater work, or perhaps match it for extension where reference level output and plumbing subharmonic depths are key factors. And in a larger room, the SVS may have other advantages I can't judge in my space. However, for music, where "tightness" the impression of speed and tonal distinctions rule for me, the JL was audibly superior in my room with my system and considerably easier to get into the ballpark from the outset. No doubt my experience with the SVS (the first sub I've had in this room) made setup of the JL a lot easier, so bear that in mind.
In fact, the JL may also work in the corner where the SVS was not as happy and I plan to try that out. Nonetheless, in the end, the JL edged out the SVS mainly in my subjective judgments of tonal definition, control and the perception of "speed."


SO?
If you are seeking a dual purpose sub with a primary emphasis on HT rather than music, or if budget is a consideration, the SVS SB16 is probably the way to go. You will not be disappointed and the fit and finish plus the customer service is beyond reproach.
However, if you seek a sub primarily for music where absolute output and extension to 15 Hz are not primary goals, then JL is unquestionably my choice. Both subs are great, but the JL is more musical in my system and the room correction makes integration easier for a klutz like me. The slightly smaller footprint is a plus in my case but some people do think bigger is better. The differences don't objectively add up to twice the price list to list that the JL costs, but there's enough in it for me to justify the difference. Others are more than just entitled to a different opinion.




.

Last edited by Pampero; 12-12-2016 at 05:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-12-2016, 05:54 PM
jdandy's Avatar
jdandy jdandy is offline
Merry Christmas to all



 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 53,224
Default

Lew.......You may want to consider the Sound Anchor Subwoofer Stand for Fathom f113.
__________________
Dan



STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A

Last edited by jdandy; 12-12-2016 at 05:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:09 PM
Ricjor1's Avatar
Ricjor1 Ricjor1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 661
Default

What is the cost of the JL F113v2?
__________________
Jeff Rowland 625 S2 amp, Corus preamp, Chord Dave DAC, Antipodes DS GT music server, Monitor Audio PL500 II, dual REL G1 MKII subwoofers and more
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:22 PM
mtroo's Avatar
mtroo mtroo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricjor1 View Post
What is the cost of the JL F113v2?
http://www.jlaudio.com/f113-gloss-ho...bwoofers-96137
__________________
Tim
Amplifiers: McIntosh 1.2 Kw
Preamp: Esoteric C03
Speakers: Salon2 with F113v2 x 2
Analog: VPI Avenger Reference with Ortofon A95 and Esoteric E03 phonostage
Digital: Silenzio and Esoteric K03-x and G02
Power Management: PS Audio P10 x 2, P5
Cables: WW PE7 SC & IC, Furutech Flux-50 Filters
Rack: HRS SXR Signature
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:30 PM
Masterlu's Avatar
Masterlu Masterlu is online now
AA Founder, Legend AV Owner



 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South FL & Cape Cod MA
Posts: 78,485
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricjor1 View Post
What is the cost of the JL F113v2?
https://youtu.be/xEkIou3WFnM

__________________
Ivan
FLORIDA
MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES
CAPE COD

MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:46 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nashville, TN.
Posts: 548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
Lew.......You may want to consider the Sound Anchor Subwoofer Stand for Fathom f113.
Dan, that makes good sense.

I only just fired off the JL today for the first time, but it is doing for me what I'd hoped a sub would do in my system whereas the SVS has been harder to tame. My wife agrees. Unfortunately because I only have two (long enough) balanced cables I can't run the two off by just switching between the two, which my Mc system allows. Good old McIntosh....plenty of connections!

I have ordered the cable and connectors to make another pair of cables, and they will also be longer so I can get to move these things around to additional locations. Need to do your patented sub crawl! It is patented isn't it?

Last edited by Pampero; 12-14-2016 at 02:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:48 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nashville, TN.
Posts: 548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricjor1 View Post
What is the cost of the JL F113v2?
Am I allowed to just come out and say it? List in gloss black is $4500. You see different prices for them wherever you look on the web, but that's what JL has posted on their site.

Ivan's hint should be observed, he's all over these subs.

Last edited by Pampero; 12-12-2016 at 06:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:09 PM
Masterlu's Avatar
Masterlu Masterlu is online now
AA Founder, Legend AV Owner



 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South FL & Cape Cod MA
Posts: 78,485
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtroo View Post
Tim... that is the older discontinued F113.
__________________
Ivan
FLORIDA
MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES
CAPE COD

MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:14 PM
slowGEEZR slowGEEZR is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 1,570
Default

I wonder how much of the differences were because one sub was a 13" while the other was a 16"? I wonder how a 13" SVS would have compared?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:27 PM
mtroo's Avatar
mtroo mtroo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlu View Post
Tim... that is the older discontinued F113.
Oops. I was in a hurry at work. That is what makes one the Master, is it not?
__________________
Tim
Amplifiers: McIntosh 1.2 Kw
Preamp: Esoteric C03
Speakers: Salon2 with F113v2 x 2
Analog: VPI Avenger Reference with Ortofon A95 and Esoteric E03 phonostage
Digital: Silenzio and Esoteric K03-x and G02
Power Management: PS Audio P10 x 2, P5
Cables: WW PE7 SC & IC, Furutech Flux-50 Filters
Rack: HRS SXR Signature
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:27 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video