Current C22 vs C70

[med_designer]

I had updated my original post but it did not take for some reason. Here are some updates over the last 24 hours:

Remotes
Good news. I found the way to allow two similar devices like the C47 and D1100 to coexist in the same rack with the same HR085 remote.

1. On the D1100 press and hold the input button to enter the setup options
2. Rotate the input knob till the display shows IR Codes
3. Use the volume knob to set the value to "alternate codes"
4. Pick up the HR095 that came with the D1100
5. Press and hold the SELECT+McIntosh buttons for 8 seconds
6. The red led will blink twice.

The C70 will not respond to the alternate codes sent by the D1100 remote and vise versa

Operation

1. Currently run the C47 with tone controls engaged but set to flat
2. When making changes to most controls there appears to be a very quick fade out an in while the function is engaged. Perhaps not a complete mute, but it is noticeable.
3. Each red LED on the volume control has a defined range but not sure what it is. When you click the volume up and down on the remote the number of red LEDS many not change but the volume will.
4. When turning on it takes about 16 seconds for the unit to become 100% ready to play audio.
5. Currently set to turn off after 30 minutes. Not sure if I will leave it on or turn it off when not using. I guess there is an argument for tube life but some gear sounds better if it is kept on all the time

Calibration
Since most modern music will keep the meters on the D100 pegged all the time I calibrated an offset into the them. The procedure I used:

1. Play a 1kHz sine wave reference to a known operating level. In this case it was -14 from the Mobile Fidelity test CD
2. Set the volume control to 100% on the D1100. Be sure you are using the fixed outputs on the D1100 at this point.
3. Set the meter source on the D100 to variable. At this point the meter should show around -14 and in my case it does. If you elect another level like -18 the meter will show this level instead
4. Choose your offset value. In my case I set the volume to 68% showing a value of around -30 on the meter.

This results in the needle on the meter not being pegged and provides a fair amount of operational headroom. Across the CD/SACD sources I have listened to it has kept the meter toward the center but with peaks comfortably not exceeding -10 on the meter in most cases.

Sound
For this section I have played a variety of albums I know well

1. Jean Michele Jarre - Oxygene (Mobile Fidelity version) and Oxygene 3
2. Rush - Signals (Mobile Fidelity version)
3. Patrick O'Hearn - Beautiful World
4. The Doors - The Doors (SACD)
5. Th Human League - Dare (SACD)

There is no question the C70 imparts its character to the over sound of these albums vs. the D1100 by itself. Looking at the schematic it looks like all signals go through the 12AX7 input stage and then a 12AT7 output stage. This is quite alright as it a primary point of using a tube pre-amp. The most obvious things I heard was a slight bloom in the midrange and a more 3D presentation. Not sure why, but individual instruments/voices are very identifiable and can be localized in space with relative ease.Almost like you can grab a fader on the mix console and changes its individual volume or pan location.

I did adjust the treble on Rush's album signals. As much as I like this version of the album the vocal felt a bit far back in the mix. Giving a +2 boost to the treble helped resolve this issue. When applying this tone correction you may need to give it a second to settle in. Also, you may notice the correction sounds to aggressive only while switching the tone control to a new setting.

Another item of note is the C70 seems to soften the leading edge of east attack transient sounds or upper frequency sounds. This is actually quite pleasing once you make a short adjustment. So overall, I am quite pleased with the C70 and will continue to let it break in.

If you have any questions you would like to ask please do and I will do my best to answer them.

[Charles]

Med Designer, this is truly excellent/valuable information regarding the remote control and the calibration. It's great to have you on board as a Mac aficionado. I look forward to your comments in the future. As you know I'm not into vinyl or tubes. I had enough of both as a youth and prefer to obtain the continuousness/smoothness/lack of grain going the solid state route but I respect all who choose a different path. I think the C70/D1100/MCT450/MC152 will hold you in good stead for many years. They are cutting edge equipment.

[brownbear]

I agree, great information and thanks for posting it. I use my D1100 as my preamp, but will likely add a tube pre at some point and use the D1100 as a DAC. The pegged meter thing would have bugged me, so it's nice to have a workaround. When the calibration steps are complete, you leave the output settings on variable in the menu?

[TWInsall]

Well the C-70 has better signal to noise, but if I were to choose between the two I would choose the C-22 hands down. I wold prefer they both have separate coaxial controls for bass and treble so I could tune the channels individually. I have to use the controls on my EQ2 now when I need, too. It would also be fun to have coaxial controls for the separate channels on my C-34.

[med_designer]

brownbear
If you follow my steps in calibrating the meters to a given reference point you would leave the meter source as variable. Changing to fixed would show the true signal level and would likely result in the meters pegged or close to pugged most of the time.

Note the meters only go to a level of zero. Meters on recording consoles or mastering studios will show levels above zero such as +4. But a recording could be calibrated to where zero itself is already +4 - hence pegged meters on our D1100.

The choice if -30 is very conservative. You could start here and then play several recordings taking note of where the meter peaks on transients such as drum hits or other fast attack sounds. Then you could adjust the D1100 volume control up to the point where the meter peaks at -2 or even 0 for the majority of these transients. Once this is set you can play the 1KHz tone again and observe the meter level to get an idea of the amount of headroom you have built in.


TWInsall
My dealer tried to get me a C22 but they were all gone according McIntosh in New York. The C70 is actually quite nice. I did not realize the C22 had coaxial controls for bass and treble. When I played with one in the dealer it was not apparent.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by med_designer

brownbear
If you follow my steps in calibrating the meters to a given reference point you would leave the meter source as variable. Changing to fixed would show the true signal level and would likely result in the meters pegged or close to pugged most of the time.

Note the meters only go to a level of zero. Meters on recording consoles or mastering studios will show levels above zero such as +4. But a recording could be calibrated to where zero itself is already +4 - hence pegged meters on our D1100.

The choice if -30 is very conservative. You could start here and then play several recordings taking note of where the meter peaks on transients such as drum hits or other fast attack sounds. Then you could adjust the D1100 volume control up to the point where the meter peaks at -2 or even 0 for the majority of these transients. Once this is set you can play the 1KHz tone again and observe the meter level to get an idea of the amount of headroom you have built in.


TWInsall
My dealer tried to get me a C22 but they were all gone according McIntosh in New York. The C70 is actually quite nice. I did not realize the C22 had coaxial controls for bass and treble. When I played with one in the dealer it was not apparent.

Med Designer, the vintage C22 did have individual adjustments of bass and treble for each channel. My dad owned one for many years. It was a great preamp. I do not believe the current C22 has individual adjustments of bass and treble for each channel.

TWInsall, I owned a C34. Great preamp and very beautiful. Kept it for many years.

[62caddy]

Originally Posted by Charles

Med Designer, the vintage C22 did have individual adjustments of bass and treble for each channel. My dad owned one for many years. It was a great preamp. I do not believe the current C22 has individual adjustments of bass and treble for each channel.

That's correct. Instead of independent L/R tone controls, the latest C22 has phono cartridge input settings in the location formerly occupied by the L & R treble controls of the earlier version C22s.

It would have made more sense to locate the cartridge settings on top of the unit rather than the front panel since access to these settings is seldom needed, allowing the C22 to retain the independent L/R tone controls of the original design.

[agentutah]

Originally Posted by med_designer

...The C70 is actually quite nice. I did not realize the C22 had coaxial controls for bass and treble. When I played with one in the dealer it was not apparent.

Hi there. Just curious after a couple of months your take on the C70. Still enjoying it? I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger for a C70 and a 275 MK VI, but I'm slightly hesitant because I really wanted the C22 but it's no longer available. Something about the C22 just looks right. The C70 is no slouch, and if it's better sonically that's a bonus obviously, but I don't feel the same pull to it as I do with the C22.

Anyway, I'm sure I'd be more than happy with the C70, but just trying to get some impressions before I pull the trigger.

Thanks!

[Masterlu]

agentutah... Welcome to AA!

[agentutah]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

agentutah... Welcome to AA!

Thank you!