78 Thread

[Maks]

There was a little bit of interest about 78s in another thread elsewhere so I figured I'd start this one up. It's been I think a little over a year since I got into 78s, it all started when I began listening to a local radio show called Blues Before Sunrise (show is downloadable with a Google). He plays a lot of original 78s blues, R&B and pre-war jazz on the show and that it what piqued my interest.

I'm using a Dual 1019 with the Shure N78S needle on a Shure M97XE cart. I have a KAB 78 pre/equalizer that I use for serious listening, but for casual listening I adjust the bass/treble on my C2300 accordingly.

My focus with collecting is on R&B, blues and some jazz. If there's one artist I really focus on it would be Louis Jordan, I believe I have around 15 of his releases so far, which is only a small portion of his total output. I just picked up 17 slabs of shellac tonight, some of the artists are: Cecil Gant, Cab Calloway, Roy Milton, Mabel Scott and Bull Moose Jackson.

Any other 78 fans here, or people looking to get into the hobby with questions?

[MyPal]

Thanks Maks!...I have a few of questions to begin with.

Is it difficult to find good 78's? What is the condition? Are they typically scratched up, crackly & pitchy? Or do you manage to find surprisingly excellent preservations from private collections? Given the brittle nature of Shellac, have they been more resistant to scratch & wear over time than vinyl?

Were the 78 phonograph needles of the day harsh to the slabs?

Given the variable recording speeds of 78's, how do you manage the speed of your table?

[Maks]

78s aren't very easy to find, I'm lucky enough to have 2 stores that get a good amount of collectible 78s. Thrift/resale stores will often get 78s, but they are usually big band records that are garbage. Local classifieds are another source, but you are typically looking at entire collections.

Conditions vary greatly and 78s are hard to visually grade. I've found many that look brand new and they sound excellent. Others look in good condition at best but sound near mint. Stylus size is another consideration, I use a 2.5mil stylus which sits lower in the groove to avoid surface noise, but will be affected by dirt in the groove. 3.0 mil is kind of the opposite and groove sizes vary as well. I wouldn't say they are more resistant to scratches, but considering the high speed at which they rotate, a scratch on a 78 is far less noticeable than one on an LP.

The old (Victrola era) needles were not easy on the 78s and tracking forces were probably high as well, that's why folks who are really into 78s will have several stylus sizes available to find the best part of the groove. Variable speed isn't an issue unless you get pre-1925 recordings. I've thumbed through literally 1000s of 78s and don't believe I've come across any of those. However, my Dual 1019 does allow some adjustments for speed.

There is a lot of great sound buried in the grooves of 78s, especially if you're a fan of music from that period. I've found some great tunes that aren't even returned on Google searches, so the discovery part is a lot of fun too.

[Dude111]

Ah man do i LOVE 78s!!!!

Of any record,THEY SOUND THE NICEST due to them being MONO and the speed they are traveling at!!

This being said... I WOULD LOVE FINDING SOME JOHNNY MATHIS ON 78! (Stuff from his 'MERRY CHRISTMAS' 33) I have that in mono (AND STEREO (Just got a mono copy a couple months ago)))

He might be TOO NEW though for 78

I love the fact they are NOT PLASTIC!! (You can clean them with HOT WATER w/o worrying about them giving up)

[Maks]

You can find Johnny Mathis on 78. Nice to see another shellac fan here! I just picked up a nice Fats Domino haul earlier today, they had a lot of surface scuffs but played as well as most NM 78s I have.

[Dude111]

Yes I sure am!!!!!

Yes Its amazing they play so well with all the marks they have on some of em!! (I LOVE 78s)

[Tughillblues]

I've wanted to get into 78s for awhile but I know so little about the play-back requirements that I've hesitated. I was thinking of getting an old receiver, turntable and small pair of speakers for a vinyl "listening station" in a small room where I store most of my LPs. I have quite a few 78s that I've picked up over the years, so I'd really like to give them a spin.
Do I need a separate stylus/cartrdige for 78s? Is there a cartridge that will simplify the process and be good for both LPs and 78s?
Any suggestions for a turntable with the 78 speed? I've read that a variable speed gizmo is a good feature on these. My price range for a turntable for this setup would probably be in the $250 - $500 area.

[Maks]

You'll definitely need a different stylus for 78s, on my 78 table I run a Shure M97xe and swap their 78 stylus in. Just requires a change of tracking force, although the styluses have different weights since the stock m97 stylus has the brush attached. The Shure stylus is smaller than many other 78 stylii, for 1950s records it's great, but for earlier records it sits too low and picks up noise. I'm looking to get into a Grado next. I also have a spare Shure M78S cart that I'd be willing to send you, but you would need the stylus for it.

The older idler drive Duals are popular for 78s, I'm using a Dual 1019. It comes up to speed really fast, sounds good enough for 78s and the price is right. Variable speed is really only an issue when you get into pre-1925 (or so, I can't recall) recordings. It's rare to run across these, and even if I did, the music isn't what I'm into. You will need a pre that has bass/treble controls because 78s were recorded using a number of EQ patterns, not RIAA.

It's a really fun hobby, finding 78s I like is a true joy since they're so scarce. I've amassed a pretty nice collection in the short time I've been collecting. You can PM if you have any more questions on anything and I'll be happy to help.

[Dude111]

Any stylus WILL WORK for 78s but if you want them to sound the best,A NEEDLE MADE FOR 78s IS RECOMMENDED

A regular needle IS TOO SMALL and cant get the whole groove and as a result,you dont hear the sound as well........

[GaryProtein]

I really think that unless you want to hear Enrico Caruso or Arturo Toscanini on historically original disks, the time for 78's is long gone.