Vinyl Newbie In Need Of Enlightenment... Is this it?

[W9TR]

Esteban,
I feel your pain, but don't give up! The rewards are on the horizon.

I forgot to mention that your cartridge will need maybe 50 to 100 hours to sound it's best. Glad the tonality is OK. Have the dealer increase the tracking force to 2.0 grams.

If surface noise is still a problem, you will need to consider a different cartridge. Some, like the Dynavector I use, are incredibly quiet and not too much more expensive than the BP2 you have.

Maybe you can find someone on this forum who has a record cleaning machine so you can clean your records properly before you make any final decisions.

I am listening to the Beatles 'Love' on vinyl as I write this. It is sounding awesome. I have the CD ripped to my music server, playing through a McIntosh MCD-500, and it just doesn't sound as good to me.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by esteban

Hope you guys can shed some light into this issue I'm having before I jump to any misguided conclusions...

I had been wanting to get back into vinyl for a long while, but due to my almost complete ignorance when it comes to proper cartridge and arm set-up (not to mention the fact that I did not have an LP collection to begin with), I always ended up surrendering to my hesitation and sense of caution. However, I had heard many analog demos that blew me away with their musicality, warmth and complete lack of digital "glare". To my surprise, all of these demos also banished the biggest fear and concern I had about the format: background noise and the dreaded "pops & clicks" gallore, which in all cases was barely even noticeable and not distracting at all. In the very few instances it intruded during playback, it actually added a little extra "something" to the experience which was definitely not detrimental at all. The current revival of the format was the icing in the cake.

I finally decided to bite the bullet and see what the whole fuzz was about. And last night I became the proud owner of my very first turntable, a Pro-Ject RM 5.1 with a Sumiko Blue Point II MC cartridge and a Phono Box preamp. Beautiful, simple, not too cheap, not too expensive. I figured I would ignore the sub-$300 models (of which there are plenty) and give the format a fair chance to impress me at home by going a couple of steps further up the line. I even visited the two last surviving stores in the area that still proudly carry vinyl and, anticipation running rampant in my mind and soul, bought about 20 or so brand new titles, from Coltrane's "Love Supreme" to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side...", to Chet Baker, to the latest Yes to Ennio Morricone.

In other words, I was ready.

Of course I wasn't expecting the level of quality I heard at those demos (after all, those tables were about 5 to 10 times the price of the Pro-Ject), but I figured this would get me close.

Everything is connected to my Prima Luna amp and Sonus Faber Toy Towers and my dealer took care of the set-up and installation and spend more than ample time making sure everything was where it needed to be. No problems there.

I will not jump to any conclusions and reserve final judgment for later on. After all, the cartridge needs to break-in, a few hours worth of listening are not enough to properly assess a new format, and my stress levels have been all over the place lately. However, I was surprised... no, make that SHOCKED at how just plain noisy and sometimes even distorted all the albums I bought sounded. I tried every single one of them. And I repeat: they were all brand new, unopened and most of them of recent pressing, like the latest Yes album or some recent jazz releases, except one used but original pressing of Iron Maiden's "Powerslave" which my wife gave me as a Christmas present last year.

I am aware of the fact that records benefit significantly from proper washing and care, but I am not willing to go that route and expense if not even something like a brand spankin' new copy of "Dark Side Of The Moon", which needs no further comments in audiophiles circles, does not blow me away but, in fact, leaves me more than a little disappointed. I even compared the sound of Yes' "Fly From Here" and Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" to their CD equivalents via my Oppo 95, and it was not even close: the Oppo was the clear winner, in EVERY possible area, including its "analog-like sound".

Every other record I played sounded as if it had gone through a million plays before it ended up on my table, with cracks, pops, bumps, and other sounds that I can't even begin to describe, plus some intermittent distortion that is very difficult to explain (static?) ruining what was otherwise a nice enough presentation, warm, smooth, with great imaging and pace, but that was it: "nice", and not "oh-my-God-how-did-I-ever-live-without-this" type of experience... Maybe I was expecting too much out of a $1K table and a $200 preamp? To me, in this day and age, that should get me at least CLOSE to the format's strengths.

What am I doing wrong? Are most record pressings this noisy, or is there perhaps a problem with my cartridge and/or my set-up and/or my preamp? Again, I do not mind the occasional pop, but if what I played last night is any indication, I am not willing to spend $30+ on something I can get on CD and/or hi-res digital for much cheaper and that will sound much, much better through the Oppo, and with no magic acts on my part when it comes to set-up and maintenance.

Having said all of that, I REALLY want to love this thing. Really. So please share your theories as to what might be wrong here and what I can possibly do to improve the sound, without having to spend close to another $1K for a dustcover (you would think that would come standard with a $1k table!) and cleaning machine... I will share further observations and comments shortly...

Tracking Force and/or VTA are incorrect. Check force with a gauge.

Correct the VTA.

And for good measure check azimuth.

[esteban]

Progress report, my oh-so-very-patient friends:

(First time doing this, so take the following for what it's worth): Based on the not-that-noob-friendly instructions in the manual, (I think) I corrected the VTA by adjusting it to a slightly different position. The arm now looks more parallel to the surface of the record and platter. I also made sure the anti-skating weight was placed in the middle position.

The sound did improve slightly when it comes to surface and overall noise level. I only played two albums (including another brand new one that just came in the mail), but both sounded definitely more "quiet" and with significantly less "pops" and "clicks". Perhaps I was suffering from some static issues before?

In any case, the distortion is still very much present, again in the "outer edges" of the stereo presentation, specially noticeable with high frequencies, and I also believe to have experienced some channel bleeding quite a few times, as if some sounds that should be dead-center erroneously end up in the right or left channel. The overall sound, even though tonally correct, is very much harsh and can become irritating, depending on the musical content. Jazz still sounds mostly fine. Hard rock not so much. Still puzzled. Still very much overwhelmed by how fragile the whole thing is.

Could the cartridge be damaged? In your experience, how common/easy is it for cartridges to break and/or become misaligned during shipping?

[chessman]

esteban, cartridges are fragile. Someone here had a very expensive one destroyed by a cleaning lady "dusting it." Is your dealer coming out to take a look at the situation?

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by esteban

Progress report, my oh-so-very-patient friends:

(First time doing this, so take the following for what it's worth): Based on the not-that-noob-friendly instructions in the manual, (I think) I corrected the VTA by adjusting it to a slightly different position. The arm now looks more parallel to the surface of the record and platter. I also made sure the anti-skating weight was placed in the middle position.

The sound did improve slightly when it comes to surface and overall noise level. I only played two albums (including another brand new one that just came in the mail), but both sounded definitely more "quiet" and with significantly less "pops" and "clicks". Perhaps I was suffering from some static issues before?

In any case, the distortion is still very much present, again in the "outer edges" of the stereo presentation, specially noticeable with high frequencies, and I also believe to have experienced some channel bleeding quite a few times, as if some sounds that should be dead-center erroneously end up in the right or left channel. The overall sound, even though tonally correct, is very much harsh and can become irritating, depending on the musical content. Jazz still sounds mostly fine. Hard rock not so much. Still puzzled. Still very much overwhelmed by how fragile the whole thing is.

Could the cartridge be damaged? In your experience, how common/easy is it for cartridges to break and/or become misaligned during shipping?

First we need to make sure that everything is ok with the arm. Remove the platter. Turn the tracking force to 0. Take off the anti-skate weight. The arm should float neutrally. Tap it downward very lightly and watch it's travel. There should be no binding. Repeat in the horizontal plane (make sure the arm doesn't drift into the sub chassis. If there is any binding, your bearings may need adjustment. Not likely but it is a possibility. Very simple to do on any Pro-ject arm.

Assuming bearings are ok, check the tracking force. Tracking force affects VTA and overhang in addition to downforce.

Azimuth is likely off - imaging issue is an indicator.

VTA while in the ballpark (your surface noise dropped) isn't yet dialed. You did not have a static problem. Vertical misalignment emphasizes surface noise.

Tonal balance is not at all correct if it is harsh. Again likely a VTA/azimuth/VTF issue, but bearings could be the issue too.

Is it possible for the cartridge to be damaged in shipping? Yes. Is it likely? Not very.

If you can't figure it out, maybe we can go over all these things on a demo table after hours at RMAF.

[chessman]

Bill, thanks for jumping in with some useful information (unlike my attempts at moral support).

[esteban]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

If you can't figure it out, maybe we can go over all these things on a demo table after hours at RMAF.

I think I'm gonna take your offer on that one, Bill!

(thanks for the step-by-step help!)

[esteban]

Originally Posted by chessman

Bill, thanks for jumping in with some useful information (unlike my attempts at moral support).

Moral support is also appreciated, Chessman, trust me!

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by esteban

I think I'm gonna take your offer on that one, Bill!

[miner]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

Bill,
A very generous offer to help a fellow audiophile. You seem to be a gentleman's gentleman. I hope to meet you at RMAF and shake your hand.