JL Audio f113 vs REL G1

[rscotth]

Greetings,

Can anyone share some pros and cons between these two subs? I have 4 f113's, 2 for the bottom end for my mains, and 2 for the .1 LFE in multichannel. I just recently switched from Klipsch Palladium to Sonus faber Amati futuras. I seem to be having minor trouble dialing in the JL's and am wondering if the G1 will work better. Currently using a Mc MEN220, running the mains full range and the subs coming in crossed at 24HZ. Things are working well, but the thing that intrigues me is the different connection types the REL offers off the amplifier speaker taps. With that type of connection and the subs getting the exact same signal as the mains, will they integrate better?

I would love to hear some real-life comparisons from our experts.

I guess I'm ultimately trying to figure out if I should make the switch to REL, or just spend some more time getting the JL's integrated better.

Thanks,
Scott

[j3brow]

Since you have JL subs, call Barry Ober at JL Audio. Barry is "Mr. Bass" and the guy behind sound doctor. He talked my ear off for 45 mins about doing bass right when I called to inquire about possibly purchasing JL subs over my current RELs. He would recommend unloading Futura from low bass duties by crossing over MEN. Give him a call and see what he says. Probably be cheaper to hire him to dial them in (if he makes house calls???) versus buying new quartet of subs.

[rscotth]

Thanks for the reply. I have chatted with Barry on many occasions. His theory of 80Hz isn't what I'm looking for in this application. I have subscribed to his methods in the past, even had him to the house for 8 hours one day a couple of years ago.

For 2-channel listening, I believe the mains should be run full-range and let the subs blend in from the bottom.

I just would like to hear from folks that have used both JL and REL, and what their thoughts were in regard to performance and integration.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by rscotth

For 2-channel listening, I believe the mains should be run full-range and let the subs blend in from the bottom.

This is the correct answer on Futura no matter whose subs you use. It does require more attention to proper set up/ even pressurization of the room by both the mains and the sub but the results are well worth the effort.

[rscotth]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

This is the correct answer on Futura no matter whose subs you use. It does require more attention to proper set up/ even pressurization of the room by both the mains and the sub but the results are well worth the effort.

Thanks Bill.

[redm]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

This is the correct answer on Futura no matter whose subs you use. It does require more attention to proper set up/ even pressurization of the room by both the mains and the sub but the results are well worth the effort.

Interesting. What I had read in subwoofer manuals was what Barry from JL basically said. The specific manual even separated for LFE and 2-chan and in both cases said start at 80Hz for the purpose of blending. I've been running my sub configuration where the main's leave off so around 34Hz and I've had to really turn down the gain to get a good blend.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by redm

Interesting.

Derek, this is the correct answer for any large, coherent loudspeaker. There's much more at play here than simple than frequency response

However, if you want to use the EQ crutch (ignoring critical physical set up parameters and allowing the EQ to do the heavy lifting) you may actually prefer rolling the speaker at 80 Hz.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by redm

Interesting. What I had read in subwoofer manuals was what Barry from JL basically said. The specific manual even separated for LFE and 2-chan and in both cases said start at 80Hz for the purpose of blending. I've been running my sub configuration where the main's leave off so around 34Hz and I've had to really turn down the gain to get a good blend.

Most manuals are incorrect. You are on the right track. You want the sub to be at it's highest possible output capabilities in the lowest frequencies. An improperly chosen crossover point that is too high forces you to turn down the level to a ridiculously low level. Problem is you have done the same at the lowest frequencies. Very bad idea.

Here's a quick and dirty but very effective way to try the lower crossover alignment. You'll need a track with low pulsed bass. If your mains run smoothly down to 34 do not put a filter on the mains and do not start at 80 Hz. Assuming you are using 24dB slopes start an octave below 34Hz. (Judging by your results above you'll end up well below 34Hz when you are done). Raise the output level of the sub so it sounds roughly the same as the level of the mains. Now raise the crossover a step at a time until the gap closes between the woofer and the mains. Pay no attention to numbers, just the sonic overlap. Once it overlaps, the bass will begin to bloat. Back off a click. At this point ask yourself if the levels are still correct. You may have to adjust the level up or down a click or two to fine tune.

Sub manufacturers hate when you say this, but you should never, never, never be aware of when the sub is operating. You should only be aware of what it is supposed to do for the system - dimension, air, body, bass extension, bass punch.

[rscotth]

So if you were to use a 22Hz tone or a 27Hz tone, would you use the same methodology to set gain.

i.e., if I set the sub crossover at say 22Hz, is there a certain frequency tone I can use to blend it into the mains and measure output with a SPL meter?

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by rscotth

So if you were to use a 22Hz tone or a 27Hz tone, would you use the same methodology to set gain.

i.e., if I set the sub crossover at say 22Hz, is there a certain frequency tone I can use to blend it into the mains and measure output with a SPL meter?

No tones. Pulses. You need to be able to hear the effect of changes well up into the mains. The reason I said to use music with pulses is that it is much easier and quicker to see if you are moving in the right direction.