Phono Stages Under 10Kish

[mulveling]

Gorgeous Bob!! Never seen one of these in silver. I think it looks better than the black, but I needed black to match my system. Man, that chrome-on-silver looks Sa-weet. I used to have a Renaissance III preamp like that (its built-in phono stage was GREAT!).

I've been going back & forth between the built-in Lundhal LL1931 SUT and outboard Bob's Devices Sky 40 and Sky 20 CineMag SUT's. I'm settling towards the Sky 40 w/ Koetsu Coralstone and LL1931 w/ Shelter Harmony. Either way is an absolute joy; it's just a shockingly different perspective rendered by these 2 kinds of SUTs. Almost as much difference there as between the cartridges themselves! Maybe I'm hearing the difference between amorphous core vs. mu-metal core designs? Now I'm kind of curious to maybe try a K&K Audio SUT with the very expensive silver-coil wired LL1931AG (amorphous) or LL1933AG (nickel). It's REALLY nice having the variable Z-Foil loading options with the built-in SUT, though.

Also, now I read in the manual that XLR outputs are available as a "special order" option. Yet one more thing I wasn't aware of. I wonder if this yields an additional performance (fed into a balanced preamp like my ARC Ref 6) vs. the RCA outputs?

[vintage_tube]

Originally Posted by mulveling

Gorgeous Bob!! Never seen one of these in silver. I think it looks better than the black, but I needed black to match my system. Man, that chrome-on-silver looks Sa-weet. I used to have a Renaissance III preamp like that (its built-in phono stage was GREAT!).

Also, now I read in the manual that XLR outputs are available as a "special order" option. Yet one more thing I wasn't aware of. I wonder if this yields an additional performance (fed into a balanced preamp like my ARC Ref 6) vs. the RCA outputs?

Thanks Sir -- I'm going all silver now (except for TT).

When I was at my dealers hooking up the SE, I could have sworn it had XLR outputs. After speaking w/Kevin it didn't -- so guess I was seeing things which is highly likely & now obvious.

Anyways, the SE is headed back to HQ for the XLR output addition & balanced XMFR along with a toggle switch for XLR/RCA.

May as well as it will be beneficial into the balanced preamp. Shucks.

FYI - $1.6K retail option.

Best Sir,

Bob

[mulveling]

Originally Posted by vintage_tube

Thanks Sir -- I'm going all silver now (except for TT).

When I was at my dealers hooking up the SE, I could have sworn it had XLR outputs. After speaking w/Kevin it didn't -- so guess I was seeing things which is highly likely & now obvious.

Anyways, the SE is headed back to HQ for the XLR output addition & balanced XMFR along with a toggle switch for XLR/RCA.

May as well as it will be beneficial into the balanced preamp. Shucks.

FYI - $1.6K retail option.

Best Sir,

Bob

Geez man, all these options need to be clearly laid out by VAC to the dealer/customer when an order is submitted. Each time I'm looking over at someone else's plate, it's another "off menu" item that looks better than mine. At this price level, XLR outputs should probably be included. Though I wonder if the tube circuity is actually balanced or single-ended; if the latter (which I suspect), then the steep extra XLR expense would be explained by the need for some additional Lundahl output transformers. This setup would NOT yield the extra 6dB signal-to-noise ratio that you usually get with differential balanced circuitry, though it would make the interconnect from phono to linestage more immune to noise pickup (I don't have an issue there anyways). In that case, I'm probably better off sticking to SE outputs and letting my Ref 6 do the SE-to-balanced conversion in the way it feels is optimal, though I do happen to know that Lundahl output trannies sound VERY good (I have some in a DAC).

Either way, this phono stage is plenty quiet enough to satisfy me as-is. Very quiet!!

I wonder if they'd replace the Lundahl SUT with one of the silver-wired versions (LL1931Ag, LL1933Ag), and for what cost (also, what if we supply the transformers? can get from K&K for $1500 a pair). Absolutely all of my signal cables (excepting most power cords and one hardwired tonearm cable) are pure solid silver; love the sound.

[vintage_tube]

Originally Posted by mulveling

Geez man, all these options need to be clearly laid out by VAC to the dealer/customer when an order is submitted. Each time I'm looking over at someone else's plate, it's another "off menu" item that looks better than mine. At this price level, XLR outputs should probably be included. Though I wonder if the tube circuity is actually balanced or single-ended; if the latter, then the extra expense would be explained by the need for some additional Lundahl output transformers. And in that case, I'm probably better off sticking to SE and letting my Ref 6 do the SE-to-balanced conversion in the way it feels is optimal, though I do happen to know that Lundahl output trannies sound VERY good (I have some in a DAC).

Maybe we should ask to have the Lundahl SUT replaced with one of the silver-wired versions (LL1931Ag, LL1933Ag) if we're gonna send it back in anyways.

Kevin mentioned he'll have to put in a balanced xmfr -- assume it's a Lundahl since he uses them exclusively. Wasn't mentioned when we spoke.

I'll pop the top again when it returns.

My mistake & I think cocktail hour will start earlier today.

Best Sir,

Bob

[mulveling]

Also, as to your "seeing things" with the phantom XLR outputs. You were possibly looking at the back of a Renaissance V preamp which shares the same chassis. The same thing fooled me when I was searching google for back pics of this phono stage some months ago!

[vintage_tube]

Originally Posted by mulveling

Also, as to your "seeing things" with the phantom XLR outputs. You were possibly looking at the back of a Renaissance V preamp which shares the same chassis. The same thing fooled me when I was searching google for back pics of this phono stage some months ago!

As I age, anything is possible these days.

If it isn't one thing it's another.

Best Sir,

Bob

[robd2]

With the VACs what connection options do you have for phono cables? When my VAC preamp (with built in phono) arrived it also included XLR in for the phono. I've been toying with the idea of swapping out my phono cable to try.

[vintage_tube]

Originally Posted by robd2

With the VACs what connection options do you have for phono cables? When my VAC preamp (with built in phono) arrived it also included XLR in for the phono. I've been toying with the idea of swapping out my phono cable to try.

You may want to look again -- when I was speaking with Kevin today he initially thought I wanted XLR PHONO inputs -- to which he replied he only provides single ended RCA Phono inputs (not many do, BTW).

My Signature MK IIa looked like this --and most likely yours too.



Best Sir,

Bob

[mulveling]

Yep, I've only ever used RCA phono cables. With a separate grounding wire, and fed into a SUT, I believe that any differences between RCA and XLR phono cables are mostly academic? Isn't it a "balanced" source signal anyways, even through an RCA phono cable?

Now whether the phono stage's active portion uses balanced or single-ended circuitry is another matter...that matters! But I believe most of VAC's stages, other than the Statement, actually use single-ended circuitry. Certainly the Renaissance phono is SE, if it needs Lundahl xformers to supply XLR outs.

Either way it's all academic...SO HAPPY with the sound of my new phono stage

[vintage_tube]

Originally Posted by mulveling

Either way it's all academic...SO HAPPY with the sound of my new phono stage

I fell in love with the SE phono when I heard it in December. I'll speak to Kevin next week -- in the mean time, it's on a FEDEX truck back to Sarasota.

And of course, upon return, I'll pop the top -- BTW besides the Jupiter Beeswax, I counted 30 Z-foil resistors (which are the crème de la crème) and made for audio. Fairly expensive -- depending on value, ranging from mid $20's up to $35 each.

Kevin believes the XLR output/toggle is a worthwhile option. He's the pro -- I'm a GED grad, so what do I know. The wife's checkbook has a "vintage_tube" balance.

Best Sir,

Bob