So what happens when Shindo gear breaks?

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Alberto

I had a problem with a tube on the Monbrison and Matt (Pitchperfect) sent me a new one the next day. That's what I call service!

Along the list of my possible worries, what happens when Shindo breaks waaaaaaaaaay far down on my list - and I listen to my Shindo 4+ hours/day.

Alberto

Similar experience with a rogue Pre amp tube in my V-R pre amp, Matt took care of it right away for me. Triple A service in my book.

Barr

[SimonYVR]

I have always personally found that an important justification of an initial high purchase price for an audio component is a strong secondary market in which it can be sold in the future. I get a little concerned when comments, some of which I have read re Shindo, suggest that used items not purchased from dealers will not and cannot be serviced. " TONE IMPORTS is aware of UNAUTHORIZED RESELLERS representing themselves as Shindo Labs dealers. Any Shindo Labs equipment purchased through an UNAUTHORIZED RESELLER will be void of all technical support and warranty conditions." Not withstanding the time and expense that Mr. Halpern has spent bringing Shindo to North America, I believe the "value" of the marquis is reduced overall by a hostile servicing policy. In this respect Shindo has the company of other great audio companies that share in this "protect my local turf" philosophy such as Accuphase.

I have dealt with several great companies regarding servicing in the past 20 years including Naim, Burmester and Weiss, and never has the location of purchase been an issue. They stand behind their product regardless of origin. These are world class manufacturers/products.

Just my 2 cents.

For the record, I am fascinated by the Shindo gear but very hesitant with regard to servicing.

Simon

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by SimonYVR

I have always personally found that an important justification of an initial high purchase price for an audio component is a strong secondary market in which it can be sold in the future. I get a little concerned when comments, some of which I have read re Shindo, suggest that used items not purchased from dealers will not and cannot be serviced. Not withstanding the time and expense that Mr. Halpern has spent bringing Shindo to North America, I believe the "value" of the marquis is reduced overall by a hostile servicing policy. In this respect Shindo has the company of other great audio companies that share in this "protect my local turf" philosophy such as Accuphase.

I have dealt with several great companies regarding servicing in the past 20 years including Naim, Burmester and Weiss, and never has the location of purchase been an issue. They stand behind their product regardless of origin. These are world class manufacturers/products.

Just my 2 cents.

For the record, I am fascinated by the Shindo gear but very hesitant with regard to servicing.

Simon

Simon,

Excellent post.
I agree to everything you stated except that :

1/ this is not a Halpern's decision. It is a politic shared by all Shindo dealers, no matter the country. Shindo does not provide support and tubes to people who buy used units outside the dealership circuit.
2/ If Shindo fascinates you : just go for it. You do not need any Shindo dealer to have it repaired. Any good tube technician can do it. There are few of them in France, they are used to repair Shindo and they do a great job. Shindo is not magic : well thought and well made circuits. No magic. So I cannot believe that you could not find any technician in the US able to repair a Shindo component perfectly. Of course, if a transformer fails, then it might be a problem because Shindo won't supply a new one. But I do not think that this event is likely to happen. Tubes, resistors, caps fail and all can be replaced by competent technicians.

I am also fed up by this way of dealing but I bought Shindo anyway and I'm glad I did. My money just won't go to dealers that have such policy.

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by SimonYVR

I have always personally found that an important justification of an initial high purchase price for an audio component is a strong secondary market in which it can be sold in the future. I get a little concerned when comments, some of which I have read re Shindo, suggest that used items not purchased from dealers will not and cannot be serviced. " TONE IMPORTS is aware of UNAUTHORIZED RESELLERS representing themselves as Shindo Labs dealers. Any Shindo Labs equipment purchased through an UNAUTHORIZED RESELLER will be void of all technical support and warranty conditions." Not withstanding the time and expense that Mr. Halpern has spent bringing Shindo to North America, I believe the "value" of the marquis is reduced overall by a hostile servicing policy. In this respect Shindo has the company of other great audio companies that share in this "protect my local turf" philosophy such as Accuphase.

I have dealt with several great companies regarding servicing in the past 20 years including Naim, Burmester and Weiss, and never has the location of purchase been an issue. They stand behind their product regardless of origin. These are world class manufacturers/products.

Just my 2 cents.

For the record, I am fascinated by the Shindo gear but very hesitant with regard to servicing.

Simon

It is a concern, but a minor one, IMO; and not one that should prevent anyone from owning Shindo.

Based on my experience, at least in the US, Shindo gear sold by previous owners (e.g. Audiogon) not only gets sold relatively quickly, but with minimal financial loss compared to most other brands (it hold its price quite well.)

Having said that, when I decided to sell my second Shindo system (Auriges + Montille) I sold it directly to Matt at Pitch Perfect. I may have made some 20% less than I would have made selling it directly (at at the same price I had purchased them ... I had bought them used). This way future buyers can get the full Shindo experience and support from Matt -- who has been great.

I am much more worried about, say, my McIntosh MDA1000. Knowing that if and when it breaks it may still be serviced by McIntosh, but since it's out of warranty would cost me a pretty penny.

Bottom line, it's good to consider resale value (I certainly do) but in the case of Shindo I believe that it comes at the top of the pack in terms of desirability and resale ease and value.

Alberto

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Simon,

Excellent post.
I agree to everything you stated except that :

1/ this is not a Halpern's decision. It is a politic shared by all Shindo dealers, no matter the country. Shindo does not provide support and tubes to people who buy used units outside the dealership circuit.
2/ If Shindo fascinates you : just go for it. You do not need any Shindo dealer to have it repaired. Any good tube technician can do it. There are few of them in France, they are used to repair Shindo and they do a great job. Shindo is not magic : well thought and well made circuits. No magic. So I cannot believe that you could not find any technician in the US able to repair a Shindo component perfectly. Of course, if a transformer fails, then it might be a problem because Shindo won't supply a new one. But I do not think that this event is likely to happen. Tubes, resistors, caps fail and all can be replaced by competent technicians.

I am also fed up by this way of dealing but I bought Shindo anyway and I'm glad I did. My money just won't go to dealers that have such policy.

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

Of all the components I have (others than the tube amps I built myself and some vintage tube gear like the Fisher 600), Shindo's are the ones I am confident I could "fix" myself should one of the breakable components (other than some horrible misuse or accident, the transformers--and important component in the final sound--should outlive us all) need it. I might not be able to find the same exact capacitor or vintage tube, but I bet you I would still have an awesome sounding pre or amp.

This is the same issue I have with some vintage gear I have and had to update. A brand new capacitor (vs a well-aged vintage one) may change the sound somewhat, but the circuit is the same and the essence of the amp is retained. Of course, if you are spending $30K on a top of the line Shindo with a super-rare tube, it would be good to buy from an authorized reseller. If you are willing to spend that kind of $, it makes sense to spend a few extra $ to "protect" yourself.

Alberto

[kev313]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Simon,

Excellent post.
I agree to everything you stated except that :

1/ this is not a Halpern's decision. It is a politic shared by all Shindo dealers, no matter the country. Shindo does not provide support and tubes to people who buy used units outside the dealership circuit.
2/ If Shindo fascinates you : just go for it. You do not need any Shindo dealer to have it repaired. Any good tube technician can do it. There are few of them in France, they are used to repair Shindo and they do a great job. Shindo is not magic : well thought and well made circuits. No magic. So I cannot believe that you could not find any technician in the US able to repair a Shindo component perfectly. Of course, if a transformer fails, then it might be a problem because Shindo won't supply a new one. But I do not think that this event is likely to happen. Tubes, resistors, caps fail and all can be replaced by competent technicians.

I am also fed up by this way of dealing but I bought Shindo anyway and I'm glad I did. My money just won't go to dealers that have such policy.

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

So you won't support the dealers that have this policy but you will buy the same product and get screwed by the policy? This is your protest?

To me it sounds like people want to have their cake and eat it too. They want the gear but don't want to pay for it.

Why don't you ask Matt how much time he has wasted on guys using his place as the Audiogon showroom. I bet it has happened more than once. While you're at it, why don't you also ask Matt how much time he has spent helping audiogon shoppers with their Shindo gear. Bet that has happened more than once, too.

Also, for the sake of clarification, by referring to sellers posing as authorized dealers, I read the Tone Imports policy as referring to grey market as opposed to secondary market sales.

I'm fairly certain that is a common policy and not unique to Shindo.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by kev313

So you won't support the dealers that have this policy but you will buy the same product and get screwed by the policy? This is your protest?

To me it sounds like people want to have their cake and eat it too. They want the gear but don't want to pay for it.

Why don't you ask Matt how much time he has wasted on guys using his place as the Audiogon showroom. I bet it has happened more than once. While you're at it, why don't you also ask Matt how much time he has spent helping audiogon shoppers with their Shindo gear. Bet that has happened more than once, too.

Also, for the sake of clarification, by referring to sellers posing as authorized dealers, I read the Tone Imports policy as referring to grey market as opposed to secondary market sales.

I'm fairly certain that is a common policy and not unique to Shindo.

I do not get screwed by this policy when I buy new Shindo gear.
I bought my Apetite to a person (Des) here in the AA marketplace.
I am amused by this policy more than bored or troubled. I knew that I would not get any service for it by Shindo. I do not care.
Refusing to service or maintain a component because it was bought used on the peer to peer market, even for components that were initially imported by the official importer, just shows how fragile this distribution system is for real.
People who act as having a power or privileges usually do not weigh much. When you have power, you do not need to show it.

[Jerome W]

I will add this : like Simon said, most brands do not act in an unfair way as Shindo.
If I buy a used McIntosh, or any major brand, here in France on the used market, and the component was imported by the french importer, I can have it repaired here, at the repair facility of the importer or I can send it to the manufacturer if it is my desire.
It is this way for most brands, in any country.
Shindo has his own sense of Ethics. That is "Shindethics". A very different notion than common sense Ethics.

[Jerome W]

Kev,

A little gift for you....

[kev313]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Kev,

A little gift for you....

Funny. But I'm grape flavored.