My first Audio Research!

[mati1979]

yes, tried with c2300pre ? c2300 with mc452 work better than c2300+ref75 ?.

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by mati1979

yes, tried with c2300pre ? c2300 with mc452 work better than c2300+ref75 ?.

Yes, I was using the C2300 pre. I can't remember exactly what I heard, but there was just a better match when keeping the same brand together.

I am sure the C2300 + ref75 will be good, but it may not be good enough to get rid of your mc452. That's why I said you need to try before you buy.

If you change over to arc completely, like I did, it's definitely a step up... But a costly step.

[mati1979]

yes , maybe the strong improvement is in the pre ? : Scratch2:
c2300 and c220 they aren't on the same level (ref 5se)

what about c500 or c1000 with mc452 in compares with AR ?

im sorry for all my questions, but here is very difficult try others brands. : las lágrimas:

[2fastdriving]

I agree, the Ref5SE pre is a strong improvement over the c2300, but it does cost twice as much! When I was comparing things, I felt that the Ref5 and Ref75 were both very small improvements when mixed with Mac gear. But when combining the Ref75 and Ref5, the improvement was much greater.

The biggest difference in sound was the texture of the bass and the purity of the midrange.

I really liked my MC452, and I think that if you were to only change it for a Ref75, it may not be worth it.

I suggest you try a c500 or c1000 with your MC452. Or perhaps upgrade your speakers if you are looking for a nice jump. You have Sophia II, and I have read that the Sophia III is very nice upgrade. Or...now that Sasha II is out, you might be able to snag Sasha I's for a great deal.

[mati1979]

It's a good point...speakers.

here I have seen some couples mc452 with sophia and sasha.
What tubes used in the 2300?

[2fastdriving]

The 452 is a nice match with the Sasha! I'm sure it is with Sophia also.

I used both GL's and PSVane tubes in my 2300, and preferred the PSVane slightly. They are both improvements over the stock tubes.

I'll say that the C2300/MC452 with a tube upgrade is actually a great combination (never heard the c220), and the Ref5/Ref75 improves on it only in certain areas. Considering the cost of upgrading to the ARC gear (about another 10-12k or so, plus you will need a phono pre if you have vinyl), it just may not be worth it to many people. This is why I am saying that you might want to consider upgrading your pre or your speakers. I think in your case, your speakers are limiting you a little bit. I've never heard Sophia II's but I have read and heard from others that the jump to the Sophia III was significant. Of course the jump to Sasha is.

What you choose to do depends on your budget ...all these ideas will give you improvements.

[audio badger]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

The 452 is a nice match with the Sasha! I'm sure it is with Sophia also.

I used both GL's and PSVane tubes in my 2300, and preferred the PSVane slightly. They are both improvements over the stock tubes.

I'll say that the C2300/MC452 with a tube upgrade is actually a great combination (never heard the c220), and the Ref5/Ref75 improves on it only in certain areas. Considering the cost of upgrading to the ARC gear (about another 10-12k or so, plus you will need a phono pre if you have vinyl), it just may not be worth it to many people. This is why I am saying that you might want to consider upgrading your pre or your speakers. I think in your case, your speakers are limiting you a little bit. I've never heard Sophia II's but I have read and heard from others that the jump to the Sophia III was significant. Of course the jump to Sasha is.

What you choose to do depends on your budget ...all these ideas will give you improvements.

Marc,
Can you comment on how the sound differs between the C2300/MC452 combo and the Ref5/Ref75 combo? A much different sound with a tube amp vs solid state? Does the Ref75 pack as much punch? What are the "certain areas" where you hear improvement? Just really curious to hear your impressions. Thanks.

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by audio badger

Marc,
Can you comment on how the sound differs between the C2300/MC452 combo and the Ref5/Ref75 combo? A much different sound with a tube amp vs solid state? Does the Ref75 pack as much punch? What are the "certain areas" where you hear improvement? Just really curious to hear your impressions. Thanks.

Hmm the more I think about it, I shouldn't have made the difference sound so small. The improvements are across the board, but some aren't apparent until you spend some time with these components.

I think the Soundstage is deeper and wider than the Mc gear, but I will most likely attribute that to the Ref 5. The depth and texture of the bass is a huge improvement over the mc452, and I attribute that to the ref75. timbre and purity of the midrange is a combination of the two components working together.

The ref75 sounds very much like solid state where it needs to, in bass punch and immediacy. But it sounds like tubes where it needs to, in voices. And surprisingly, It has way more power than you'd ever guess. I don't miss any watts.

The combo is really impressive.

But I think Mc usability, build quality, and looks are better... And the Mc combo is a very good value.

So I strongly suggest that anyone considering a wholesale move do an in home demo. And... Don't mix and match the two brands. You won't get your money's worth.

[audio badger]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

Hmm the more I think about it, I shouldn't have made the difference sound so small. The improvements are across the board, but some aren't apparent until you spend some time with these components.

I think the Soundstage is deeper and wider than the Mc gear, but I will most likely attribute that to the Ref 5. The depth and texture of the bass is a huge improvement over the mc452, and I attribute that to the ref75. timbre and purity of the midrange is a combination of the two components working together.

The ref75 sounds very much like solid state where it needs to, in bass punch and immediacy. But it sounds like tubes where it needs to, in voices. And surprisingly, It has way more power than you'd ever guess. I don't miss any watts.

The combo is really impressive.

But I think Mc usability, build quality, and looks are better... And the Mc combo is a very good value.

So I strongly suggest that anyone considering a wholesale move do an in home demo. And... Don't mix and match the two brands. You won't get your money's worth.

Thanks for the thoughtful and informative post!

[SL1800]

I have actually heard the Ref5 pre with a MC452 vs the C220 with the same MC452 and the Ref5 is way ahead of the C220. Is the C2300 way better than a C220? I don't know but I like it enough that I bought the C2300 that was Marc's. The Ref5 is just out of my budget.